5e PC Religion and Mechanics

[BaconAwesome]

Our group just started playing 5e (using modules, so we're in Faerun on the Sword Coast), and one striking thing is that (a) it seems like religious observance is widespread in-universe but (b) religion isn't a part of the formulaic background generation, and (c) in practice, except for clerics, druids, paladins, acolytes and the occasional deep role player, PCs tend not to be religious. Our cleric talks a lot about his patron but most of the PCs aren't sympathetic or offended, they just treat him like a spellcaster with a somewhat annoying quirk.

In other campaigns, do people see more religious observance? Are there house rules to occasionally punish sailors who don't give Umberlee her due, etc? Thanks!

[GooeyChewie]

Even Paladins and Clerics don’t necessarily have to put their religion at the forefront, mechanically. The PHB even allows a Cleric gain power from a cause instead of a diety. Individual DMs may place more or less emphasis on religion in their campaigns.

[Naanomi]

Very setting and campaign specific... Forgotten Realms is more religious than many other settings. I’ve granted inspiration for appropriate prayers/devotion before

[Laserlight]

I've seen a few characters whose religion made a significant impact on their actions, but not many. Usually the most you get is "When we get to town, I stop by the temple and talk to the head priest". Religious motivation is just one part of the whole Character Motivation thing that D&D doesn't really handle well.

For the "sacrifice to the sea god" thing, you can make a point of it ("you have enough money to either make the traditional sacrifice or do this other important thing--which do you choose?"), or you can just assume that PCs do it in the background without specifically mentioning it, just like having their shoes repaired or laundry done.

[Mister_Squinty]

Religion pushes way too many buttons for some people. WOTC, being a company more interested in making money than pushing a religion, handwaves it by leaving devoutness, religious punishment/rewards, etc up to the specific DM.

[HMS Invincible]

I've noticed the tension behind the Tempest domain for clerics. They're all evil gods in forgotten realms. I decided to roll with it, and make a quasi good character live with the fact that his source of power is petty and cruel and evil.
Talos is pretty much extorting every seagoing person and his rituals are barbaric. Should be interesting if it can work with a good aligned person.

I'm going to warn people about Talos wrath. And maybe play it naive or trusting in the church. It'll depend on how easy the party reacts to Talos.

[lunaticfringe]

Real World religion tends to weird people out. I feel that occasionally making your party members feel uncomfortable is just good roleplay. I wouldn't over do it. I save it for relevant situations.

My druid was a Fey Animal Spirit cultist. I didn't push my views on people or try to convert because it was a slightly secretive Mystery Cult thing. One of my hooks was doing Cult stuff so when that came up there were rituals, weird ones. Me and the dm had fun with it but the Wizard player was obviously a bit uncomfortable.

[BaconAwesome]

Thanks - that all makes a lot of sense. We were wondering who goes to all those temples when none of our players even consider it, but I can see both religious people and non-religious people having issues with a game mechanic that encourages people to role play religious observance to a polytheistic and sometimes infernal belief system, and it's definitely not worth that.

[Tanarii]

Thanks - that all makes a lot of sense. We were wondering who goes to all those temples when none of our players even consider it, but I can see both religious people and non-religious people having issues with a game mechanic that encourages people to role play religious observance to a polytheistic and sometimes infernal belief system, and it's definitely not worth that.FR is a somewhat specific case. A non-religious character would be an aberrant case, especially among humans and demihumans. For starters, they believe that the truly false and faithless will be punished in the wall of the faithless for all eternity.

This is apparent in the 5e FR splat-book Sword Coast Adventurers Guide, just as it has been in all pre-5e splatbooks. SCAG dedicates 22 pages out of just over 150 pages to religion and gods, which is more than 10% of the book. As the intro to FR religion on page 19 says:
"Though wizards work wonders with their Art, and adventurers take their fates into their own hands, it is on the gods that most folk in Forgotten Realms depend when they have need. The gods play a role in the lives of nearly everyone, from the mightiest lord to the meanest urchin."

[RickAllison]

I figured it was kind of like reality. I always pick some patron deity for my characters, some divine being that has a particular resonance with them. A favorite for me is Eldath, where her rivers and springs have carried PCs away from danger. This devotion doesn't get brought up 90% of the time, but gods help the person who defiles a sacred stream. I have a story seed for a druid of a lesser goddess of apples (based on Idun of Norse mythology) who would be on a holy quest to find the perfect place for a new orchard; I don't imagine the party would know about the quest unless someone asked or the druid wanted to travel somewhere in particular. I am a very religious person in real life (Catholic), but I rarely discuss my beliefs unless it becomes relevant to a topic at hand. Unless I am playing someone who is very evangelistic, the most a given character is likely to show in daily conversation are blessings, prayers when appropriate, and aggravation at low-impact blasphemes.

[Tanarii]

I figured it was kind of like reality.
I know as non-religious person, I'm often surprised at how many people are quietly religious. Even close friends I've known for a long time.

[Slipperychicken]

If you ask me, the 'divine magic = religion' thing is just a sacred cow. Fewer of us actually care about roleplaying a priest or other fanatical divine representative; the game just forces people into that roleplaying space when they want to use powers which have been arbitrarily associated with the divine. If they cut the association entirely, they'd be breaking decades of lore, but they'd also free thousands of roleplayers from having to RP pagan religious devotion just to be good at healing.

It's a lot like the connection between monastic aestheticism and unarmed combat in dnd. It's not necessary, and rarely helpful given the great variation between game settings and the proclivity of homemade settings. It takes players who want to be good at hand-to-hand fighting, and stuffs them into a roleplaying space that they likely never wanted to explore in the first place. Many of us want to play some thuggish brawler, wrestler, or secular martial artist, but the options presented for that lore tend to be inferior to the ones which require a backstory involving monkhood.

And almost to add insult to injury, after dnd places this gigantic emphasis on flawless religious practice, it then can't be bothered to spell out these practices in detail. You end up being pressured to carry around holy texts whose teachings are not written in the game manual, plastering yourself in holy symbols which are not illustrated in the book (good luck making a character portrait for your cleric!), and having encyclopedic knowledge of a religious ideology which has not been fleshed out and whose basic teachings do not exist.

[PhoenixPhyre]

If you ask me, the 'divine magic = religion' thing is just a sacred cow. Fewer of us actually care about roleplaying a priest or other fanatical divine representative; the game just forces people into that roleplaying space when they want to use powers which have been arbitrarily associated with the divine. If they cut the association entirely, they'd be breaking decades of lore, but they'd also free thousands of roleplayers from having to RP pagan religious devotion just to be good at healing.

It's a lot like the connection between monastic aestheticism and unarmed combat in dnd. It's not necessary, and rarely helpful given the great variation between game settings and the proclivity of homemade settings. It takes players who want to be good at hand-to-hand fighting, and stuffs them into a roleplaying space that they likely never wanted to explore in the first place. Many of us want to play some thuggish brawler, wrestler, or secular martial artist, but the options presented for that lore tend to be inferior to the ones which require a backstory involving monkhood.

And almost to add insult to injury, after dnd places this gigantic emphasis on flawless religious practice, it then can't be bothered to spell out these practices in detail. You end up being pressured to carry around holy texts whose teachings are not written in the game manual, plastering yourself in holy symbols which are not illustrated in the book (good luck making a character portrait for your cleric!), and having encyclopedic knowledge of a religious ideology which has not been fleshed out and whose basic teachings do not exist.

I've actually never assumed that Clerics (the class) are actually religious professionals. Clerics get their power from the gods, to be sure, but there's a wide variety of the actual relationships involved--the big difference (to me) between a warlock and a cleric is that the warlock chose, while the cleric was chosen. And gods work in mysterious ways, choosing people that may not be the most fanatical as their tools in the mortal realm. Most NPC church-types aren't Clerics, they're priests or acolytes.

Also, having a strong sensitivity to the interests of your deity (high WIS) is very different from knowing the ritual practices and doctrinal niceties of a particular church Intelligence (Religion). Unlike arcane magic, the secret to divine magic is not in the perfect performance of a set of physical actions/speech. It's in the belief/faith/righteousness of the practitioner and the resulting purity of the channel to the heavens. This allows an untutored, but devout rural cleric to be just as effective as a high-church acolyte of the same faithfulness.

Most of the details are left fuzzy so that the player (with the DM) can fill in the gaps however they want. There are basic parameters, but if a cleric of a particular god says "we worship this way" or says "I perform the rite of contrition," the details are unimportant or can be dictated by the cleric.

[GooeyChewie]

Snip

The PHB actually says that a cleric can devote him or herself to a cause rather than a diety. So if you don’t want your character to RP pagan religious devotion, you are free to abstain and still run a Cleric. I agree that the books are fairly light on details concerning religious practice, but I believe they mean this “insult” to allow players the creative freedom to customize their characters.

Regarding the relationship between monastic traditions and unarmed combat, I do wish we had at least a second viable unarmed combat class. But there’s no reason you could not create a character of the monk class and fluff that character as a tavern brawler or whatever you prefer.

[Tanarii]

--the big difference (to me) between a warlock and a cleric is that the warlock chose, while the cleric was chosen.
The other difference being the warlock's powers do not appear to be channeled power, coming from the Patron when they're used. According to the class description they seem to be some combination of bestowed / granted (after which the warlock has the power), taught to the warlock, and self-taught. That's not to imply bestowed or granted power can't be rescinded. Just that it doesn't seem to come direct from the Patron every time it's used. Certainly for their Arcane powers this is not the case, since the warlock manipulates the weave as opposed to the power mediating.

But yeah, I agree the Clerics are quite clearly not required to be temple acolytes or whatever, a member of the organized religion (if any) of their god. The only requirement appears to be someone with deep faith/belief, that has been granted access to their gods power for some divine purpose.

Which probably pisses off any temple hierarchy that haven't been granted access to said power. :smallamused:

[Naanomi]

If you ask me, the 'divine magic = religion' thing is just a sacred cow
Makes sense, Sacred Cows are a reoccurring theme in many real world religions