Tome of Magic in 5e: What has been ported, and what needs to?

[Xuldarinar]

3.5's tome of magic has by far been my favorite D&D resource, however it isn't exactly directly compatible with 5e thus i am led to wonder: What have people brought over?


Chapter 1 holds the Binder class. Not that this is the end all be all version but i have found this (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2016/06/book-of-binding.html) port of the Binder class. That does leave out magic items.. monsters.. feats.. ect. but if there is no superior version then it is a good place to start for ToM's Chapter 1. For those not familiar.. well the port explains what a binder is.

Chapter 2 holds the Shadowcaster, which i'll admit has long been my favorite for reasons i cannot explain. For any unfamiliar, they are spellcasters that use shadow magic exclusively as its own form of magic and in all other respects stand somewhere between sorcerers and wizards. Are there any ports out there that one would recommend of the mystery-using class, be they a full on class or merely a way to alter an existing class to fit the bill?

Chapter 3 brings us to the infamous Truenamer, and a new system presents the opportunity to start things over. Long story short on that class is you say something in an ancient language, pass a check, and something happens (at least that was the intent). So, has anyone been so ambitious as to port this class over and has it been at least marginally more functional than its 3.5 incarnation?

Of course, these do also extend to the monsters and items present: From the Deadly Dancer to Khayal and even to Painspeakers. Perhaps even someone has ported Karsite as a racial variant option?

[clash]

I tried my hand at the truenamer but couldn't find a good way to balance the casting dynamics. What would you like to see from a shadowcaster? The original basically had cantrips and combined spells ave spell slots into one resource which may not work in 5e unified casting system but I would be willing to try brewing it so long as I understood the four concepts you were looking for

[Xuldarinar]

I tried my hand at the truenamer but couldn't find a good way to balance the casting dynamics. What would you like to see from a shadowcaster? The original basically had cantrips and combined spells ave spell slots into one resource which may not work in 5e unified casting system but I would be willing to try brewing it so long as I understood the four concepts you were looking for

That is a good point. The shadowcaster does diverge considerably from the design mentality of casters in 5e. What drew me in is the flavor they hold most of all. They use magic but because if its nature it divorces itself from other spells, having less interaction. I also rather like the idea of mystery Paths. Things grouped together, and certain flows were encouraged.

Have you seen the Mystic (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/mystic-class) class? The idea of instead of acquiring spells (or individual powers) you acquire families of abilities. I know it divorces the shadowcaster from wizards completely, and actually starts to enter into the realm of Subpsionics, but perhaps a port of the class could either take notes from the mystic or even serve as a Mystic Order itself (like Wu Jin does, and Favored Soul is just a type of sorcerer)? Paths, and the mysteries contained therein, could function then as inspiration for Disciplines and the effects they offer.



As far as Truenamer goes.. That is almost a lost cause isn't it? A great idea but one that is hard to balance on paper.

[Vaz]

Binder is essentially the Warlock, except with the ability to Prepare Invocations and Spells based on who they bind. Struggle is how to get the Binders flexibility across without ****ting on what the Warlock does, or being weaker than a Warlock.

Shadowcaster is a fancy Shadow Sorcerer. No issues or tricks there.

Truenamer cannot really function in any seemingly similar point of way, due to Bounded Accuracy making checks basically pointless. 'I want to Cast Shield', *sweet make an Arcana check*, oh wait sorry, you rolled a 11, and you needed a 15'. Either the class stays easy to cast spells, and you break the game with NI spellslots akin to notorious Sor/warlock multiclasses, or it becomes too difficult, in which case the check is invalidated, and you might as well play another actual caster.

Tome of Magic cannot take place in 5e DnD short of some kind of boring Archetype for Bard or Warlock, Sorcerer, or Wizard. 5e is really, really crap for innovation or new mechanics.

[clash]

Ya I actually have played the mystic so I know it fairly well. I think shadow castor would fit good as a mystic order.

As to true namer I wouldn't say it is impossible but something is missing from the equation for sure

[Xuldarinar]

Ya I actually have played the mystic so I know it fairly well. I think shadow castor would fit good as a mystic order.

As to true namer I wouldn't say it is impossible but something is missing from the equation for sure

Perhaps the Truenamer would better as a class (or subclass) that has fewer slots than a caster of it's caliber, but makes an ever increasing skill check to instead avoid having expended a slot or to empower effects? Maybe boiled down to a wizard school or maybe a bard college (You don't sing anymore, you just have the right words to say).

[Grod_The_Giant]

The best way to handle the Truenamer, I think, would be with normal spell slots, but with 4e style "attack roll verses the target's save" instead of normal saves. So, like, to cast Reversed Word of Nurturing on an enemy, instead of them making a Wisdom save you'd roll d20+Prof+Int against their Wisdom save bonus +10. Combine that with a smaller number of spells known, but each with a forward and reversed form, and you'd capture the feel decently well, methinks.

[Unoriginal]

As to true namer I wouldn't say it is impossible but something is missing from the equation for sure

Truenamer has had something missing from its equation since they published the book, according to most people. As much as I like the concept.

IMO Truenamer has the potential to be a Warlock subclass with a power to modify their Invocations, or the like.

[Mortis_Elrod]

I’m thinking shadowcasters fall under Mystic. Very close to spellcasting but not exactly. Shadow disciplines would be cool i guess. Either that or warlock and if that fails then maybe look into it’s own class.

For Binder the warlock kind of ate that in 4th edition and it seems to digest well in 5th. MFOV has a Binder class though and I really like it. Seems balanced and doesn’t step over anyone’s toes.

Truenamer is a problem since publication and I’m not sure what to do here. If it’s a subclass it’s bard Mystic or wizard for sure, and if it’s a separate class then it should probably follow the warlocks chassis.

Maybe some thing like spend bardic inspiration die for a new action that does something upon passing a check (add BI die to it) while also still casting a spell?

[Xuldarinar]

All of the class stuff is fine and good (nothing has been created yet, that i've seen, but still.) Now what is left is everything else in the book.

Any suggestions regarding converting magic items or monsters?

Edit: It seems that MFOV's binder resource also includes magic items.

[Fayd]

I’m currently working on porting over the Binder as a Warlock patron. Depending on what I hear from the DM’s guild (legal IP questions) I may port more from that chapter.

[Unoriginal]

All of the class stuff is fine and good (nothing has been created yet, that i've seen, but still.) Now what is left is everything else in the book.

Any suggestions regarding converting magic items or monsters?

Well, the monsters should be easy enough to do, if you just keep the concept and re-build them from scratch in an appropriate way for 5e rather than just copy/pasting them (something that should be said about *every* monster conversion).

For exemple: the Logorkon Devil

[Work in Progress]

So, the Logorkon is a CR 14 bugger in the ToM. Ideally, we want a 5e version in the vicinity of this CR, which would make it a decent boss for a lvl 10-12 group

So, let's write what we know of the monster, following the 5e's DMG monster creation guidelines


Name:Logorkon
Size: Large
Type: Fiend (devil)
Alignment: lawful evil


Now, the next step is a bit harder, as it is determining the Ability stats, and they are pretty different between editions. For exemple, the only 5e CR 14 fiend, the Ice devil, had Str 23, Dex 21, Con 23, Int 22, Wis 22, Cha 20 in 3.5, and in 5e they have STR 21, DEX 14, CON 18, INT 18, WIS 15, CHA 18.

Now, what do we know about the Logorkon? in 3.X, it's a scholarly devil who's still tough in melee, but who is actually less strong, less wise and less charismatic than the Gelugon, if a bit more resistant to wounds and a bit more agile. But those stats were used due to concerns that are not 5e's. Furthermore, we have to take into account the stats for the Pit Fiend, who represent the peak of devilhood before the "Ruler of your own layer" stage.

So let's say that the Logorkon's stats are:




STR: 18
DEX: 14
CON: 18
INT: 20
WIS: 14
CHA:17

Then we write down the Expected CR of 14.

Next step is AC, so let's give the devil the one expected for its CR: 18

Then there is HPs. The 3.X version had more than the Gelugon, so we could say that this one has 200 HP.

Add the typical devil resistances: bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons that aren’t silvered

And the typical immunities: fire, poison

To which we can add immunity to sonic damages, since it's a devil with word powers, and they had thunder weapons in 3.X