Can Reincarnate circumvent multiclass stat requirements?

[EdenIndustries]

Pretty much what the title says, but let me provide an example to elaborate:

You create a Wood-Elf with standard array, so your stats, post-racial bonuses, are:

Str 8
Dex 10 + 2 = 12
Con 14
Int 15
Wis 12 + 1 = 13
Cha 13

And you decide to be a Cleric at level 1. At level 2, you decide to multi-class into Wizard. Since you have at least 13 Wis and Int, no problem!

Then, you die. But! A helpful Druid casts Reincarnate on you. And lucky you, you turn back into an Elf! But...it's a High Elf, instead. So your post-racial stats are now:

Str 8
Dex 10 + 2 = 12
Con 14
Int 15 + 1 = 16
Wis 12
Cha 13

You no longer have the Wis required to multi-class out of Cleric and into Wizard. But, since you've already done it, I guess by RAW nothing happens and you maintain your Cleric abilities? Any thoughts on that?

[Rowan Wolf]

A dm could rule you no longer qualify for multi classing and not allow you to continue leveling as a wizard only cleric your first class until you reach the required scores.

[History_buff]

A dm could rule you no longer qualify for multi classing and not allow you to continue leveling as a wizard only cleric your first class until you reach the required scores.

But even then you’d have the class features you want presumably, and wouldn’t need to continue in the other class if you’re lucky with timing.

[Rowan Wolf]

I would guess the intent of the example multiclass is to get heavy armor for wizard so the possible lock out of continuing wizard would be at a full stop.

[History_buff]

Oh I see what you mean. Eh, seems counterintuitive. Why should a character be locked into a class thay character no longer has the ability scores to progress in?

[DarkKnightJin]

I'd say that the character in question can continue on in either class. They had the stats at the time of Multiclassing to allow it. I see no reason to disallow any leveling in either simply because of a single spell. They'd be slightly worse at Clericing than before. That should be all the 'punishment' they need. Oh, on top of now being a (completely) different race than they started out as.

[JBPuffin]

I think people are confused by the point of the multiclass req; the idea is you have to be naturally competent at both the classes you take levels in in order to receive benefits from both. Losing your +1 Wis doesn't mean the character can "no longer progress in Cleric," but can't do so while juggling all the wizard stuff they have to do.

As a DM, I'd say they'd need to reconfigure their stats to qualify for both of the classes they have - not a problem for the example character, since they can just swap their Wis and Cha with no real penalty. As a pedant...their cleric level is gone. They might be trained in Religion, might not be, but they can't use their class abilities. Until their Wisdom is boosted, no medium/heavy armor or martial weapons, no cleric spells or class features, no multiclassed caster-level. They're a 1st-level wizard with two skills from the cleric list rather than the wizard's and Wis/Cha save proficiency instead of the usual Int/Wis until further notice.

[RSP]

If I'm DMing:

1) character can still progress as Wizard;

2) character still has all their class features available to them for both Wizard and Cleric;

3) character cannot multiclass out of Wizard until Wiz gets up to 13.


Now, if the character had achieved the multiclass requirement through a magic item and then lost/removed that item, such as using a Headband of Intellect to obtain Int 13+ for Wizard (a completely different situation than the OP is asking about), I'd rule they lose the multiclassed class features.

[EdenIndustries]

Thanks for all the thoughts everyone! It seems like there is no RAW answer to this, based on the responses being all "If I were a DM" and "I'd say..."? I still appreciate those responses of course, don't get me wrong! But I guess we can conclude that, by RAW, the character can continue as normal with no penalty other than any modifier change from the stat adjustment? Though of course, individual DM's can rule however they see fit.


Now, if the character had achieved the multiclass requirement through a magic item and then lost/removed that item, such as using a Headband of Intellect to obtain Int 13+ for Wizard (a completely different situation than the OP is asking about), I'd rule they lose the multiclassed class features.

I believe this tweet clarifies RAI that an item such as a Headband of Intellect doesn't provide the means to meet multiclass prereqs: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/642541013551083520

[Spiderguy24]

If you were to reincarnate, RAW you should be able to continue as a Cleric and as a Wizard since you started as a Cleric at level 1. It only makes scene that you can't continue as a Cleric if there was some plot device that prevents you from doing so.

[bid]

You no longer have the Wis required to multi-class out of Cleric and into Wizard. But, since you've already done it, I guess by RAW nothing happens and you maintain your Cleric abilities? Any thoughts on that?

"To qualify for a new class, [...]"
By RAW, nothing happens. You already have a level in that class, ergo it's not a "new class".

[History_buff]

By RAW, nothing happens. You already have a level in that class, ergo it's not a "new class".

That’s my take on it too.

[EdenIndustries]

That’s my take on it too.

Very interesting. I guess this is a way for serious min/maxers to try to get a bit more oomph out of their character. Choose your starting race based on multiclass prereqs you need, and then later use Reincarnate enough times to get the race you really want for your primary stats :smallsmile:

[Matrix_Walker]

You'd be fine, as the prerequisite was met at the time you multiclassed.

JC tweeted on Elven Bladesingers who are reincarnated to non elves can stay Bladesingers by the same logic.

[nickl_2000]

Very interesting. I guess this is a way for serious min/maxers to try to get a bit more oomph out of their character. Choose your starting race based on multiclass prereqs you need, and then later use Reincarnate enough times to get the race you really want for your primary stats :smallsmile:

If you min/max so much that you have someone murder and reincarnate your PC over and over again, got may have a slight issue...


By the way, can you imagine if you've built a Dwarf character around the armor or how they don't lose speed when using armor without enough strength, then get reincarnated into something else?

[EdenIndustries]

If you min/max so much that you have someone murder and reincarnate your PC over and over again, got may have a slight issue...
haha too true! Nevertheless, an interesting thought experiment at least? :smallsmile:



By the way, can you imagine if you've built a Dwarf character around the armor or how they don't lose speed when using armor without enough strength, then get reincarnated into something else?

Sounds like a fascinating turn of events! One of my favourite things as a player or DM is how players adapt to new circumstances.