Fun but functional rogue builds?

[FrozenGnomes]

Before I get started, No Psionic prestige classes.

I have next to no knowledge of what 3/3.5 has to offer in terms of builds, apart from what I've experienced so far in the few months I've been playing IRL. There's a pretty decent chance my character might die, so I'm looking toward making a back up character using a rogue of some kind. What are some fun, but still completely functional builds I could go with?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Can you give us more information?

Which books can we use?
What do you want to do?
How do you get your stats?(Point buy?Rolling?)
House rules?
Races?

Some stuff that can give directions?

[FrozenGnomes]

Can you give us more information?

Which books can we use?
What do you want to do?
How do you get your stats?(Point buy?Rolling?)
House rules?
Races?

Some stuff that can give directions?

Can't believe I forgot that stuff! I can roll or point buy. No real firm house rules, just rulings for individual cases. You can use any book as far as I know, as long as its not a psionic one, I just have to prove its a real book, and it cant be third party. As for races, those are subject to approval most should be fine. Would be coming in at 5th or 6th level depending on if I lose a level or not.

As for what I want to do, I would like to contribute in combat a bit more than my previous character did, and be able to still do the skill monkey thing if possible.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Can't believe I forgot that stuff! I can roll or point buy. No real firm house rules, just rulings for individual cases. You can use any book as far as I know, as long as its not a psionic one, I just have to prove its a real book, and it cant be third party. As for races, those are subject to approval most should be fine. Would be coming in at 5th or 6th level depending on if I lose a level or not.

As for what I want to do, I would like to contribute in combat a bit more than my previous character did, and be able to still do the skill monkey thing if possible.

What about the party? Class and roles.

How do you want to contribute? Damage? Debuffing? Something else?

What do you do now?

[FrozenGnomes]

What about the party? Class and roles.

How do you want to contribute? Damage? Debuffing? Something else?

What do you do now?

If a rogue can debuff/control that'd be cool. Party make up atm is a human fighter, human cleric and an elf sorcerer whose prestige class may change from shadow to something else due to in game stuff. I actually still play a rogue atm, but he's a shadowdancer and due to ingame stuff, he might just die. I like rogues.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Noooooo!!!!!!

I lost everything because I have bad connection :'(


Ok, let's do it.

1. If Shadow isn't bad as it look like from the information on your PC then get the Shadow template(if you want to hide and sneak).

2. In Complete Scoundrel you can find some feats that let you change SA dices into different effects, look at them(I will be able to give you my advice about them later (maybe a few days).

3. be small(Halfling is nice if you want to go to Master Thrower) and get all the dex you can(Weapon Finnes)

4. for stats get Dex->Int->Con or Dex->Con->Int. get some Cha if you want social skills and a nice wis because you do have a will save. you can dump Str because you will have SA for damage.

5. get a way to make max number of Attack rolls(every attack roll is a SA).
I like the Master Thrower tricks but Bloodstorm Blade from ToB in nice for it+2 weapons fighting.

6. Darkstalker is a very good feat if you will like to sneak.

7. Lose Trap sense at level 3 for Penetrating Strike(the one from Lightbringer Rogue is better) as it let you SA everything (Half Damage).

8. I forgot. Oops.

9. I will give you more information later and a build if I will have some time for it.

10. You can always go for a Rogue/Wizard if you want to(I will link a thread about it later).

[Darrin]

How about: Rogue 3/Wizard 2/Unseen Seer 10/Abjurant Champion 5? BAB +15, 9th level spells, 6d6 sneak attack, penetrating strike?

[DeTess]

Do you want to be a rogue (as in the class), or merely something rogue-ish?

In the second case, beguiler (PHB2) is a rogue-ish character that exchanges sneak attack for spellcasting and gets a fixed spell list with lots of illusions and enchantment.

Swordsage(ToB) is more ninja-like, and is quite potent in melee combat through its maneuvers and stances.

Both these classes get 6+int skillpoints, but beguiler gets strong int-synergies because that is its casting stat.

Edit: both these classes are also very effective without multiclassing, dipping or using prc's.

[Goaty14]

IIRC a changeling rogue that throws skill points into disguise and forgery could make for a very interesting character, given that changelings can use disguise at-will vs taking a few minutes.

[GrayDeath]

Do you want to be a rogue (as in the class), or merely something rogue-ish?

In the second case, beguiler (PHB2) is a rogue-ish character that exchanges sneak attack for spellcasting and gets a fixed spell list with lots of illusions and enchantment.

Swordsage(ToB) is more ninja-like, and is quite potent in melee combat through its maneuvers and stances.

Both these classes get 6+int skillpoints, but beguiler gets strong int-synergies because that is its casting stat.

Edit: both these classes are also very effective without multiclassing, dipping or using prc's.

I second that.


With the rght Disciplines, a Combo of Swordsage, Rogue and Telflammar Shadowlord can make you icnredibly effective at movement and Striking (Shadow Teleport for fulla ttacks with full Sneak Attacks for example, but also added flexibility via other Martial maneuvers).

However, since you ahve a Fighter in the group it would only be fair of you to suggest to him to mutliclass (or retrain if available) to Warblade.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I will kill some one!!!!!
Stop erasing my comments!!!!

:'( this is time number 5

You can go Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3 with the feat Daring Outlaw

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=4
you can find the feat here and also the feats for trading SA damage for different effects.

I like the con damage one.

I will take Strong Heart Halfling or the regular one.

I will take Dex->Int->con->wis->Str->Cha.

I will continue with Master Thrower if I want to be Range or with more of the class you like more.

I will go two weapons fighting, there is a good handbook in Darrin signature.

You can take a few level in SA fighter and the feat Daring Warrior for extra feats but it might over shadow the fighter.

Continue with Rogue or Swashbuckler as you like.

[DEMON]

I will kill some one!!!!!
Stop erasing my comments!!!!

:'( this is time number 5

Pro tip: ctrl+c before you hit Submit Reply :smallwink:

If it's a common occurrence, that you lose posts, this is a good way to avoid it.

To OP: Whisper Gnome (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3)(RoS) is a good race option for a Rogue. It's favored class is Rogue, if that matters to you, has favorable ability adjustments, is fast for its size, gets racial bonuses to useful skills and has it's own ambush feat (Silencing Strike).

While Halfling is not a bad option, especially for a ranged rogue, this is a lovely alternative for a melee one.


You can take a few level in SA fighter and the feat Daring Warrior for extra feats but it might over shadow the fighter.

Darring Warrior will only let your Swashbuckler levels count as Fighter levels for feat pre-reqs (and give you some Swashbuckler goodies, but so does Daring Outlaw). It won't give you the feat slots. Also requires Fighter 4, or another source of Weapon Specialization.

[ATHATH]

Why are Psionics banned?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Pro tip: ctrl+c before you hit Submit Reply :smallwink:

If it's a common occurrence, that you lose posts, this is a good way to avoid it.

To OP: Whisper Gnome (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3)(RoS) is a good race option for a Rogue. It's favored class is Rogue, if that matters to you, has favorable ability adjustments, is fast for its size, gets racial bonuses to useful skills and has it's own ambush feat (Silencing Strike).

While Halfling is not a bad option, especially for a ranged rogue, this is a lovely alternative for a melee one.



Darring Warrior will only let your Swashbuckler levels count as Fighter levels for feat pre-reqs (and give you some Swashbuckler goodies, but so does Daring Outlaw). It won't give you the feat slots. Also requires Fighter 4, or another source of Weapon Specialization.

I knew I missed something with the Darring Warrior. Thank you for fixing me.

Anyway, Hit and Run Fighter will be a nice dip(he will have SA, Dex and Int to damage), He can also take Hit and Run SA Fighter as they trade different stuff if he want more SA(unless he want more feats for two handed Weapons fighting).

[ATHATH]

I knew I missed something with the Darring Warrior. Thank you for fixing me.

Anyway, Hit and Run Fighter will be a nice dip(he will have SA, Dex and Int to damage), He can also take Hit and Run SA Fighter as they trade different stuff if he want more SA(unless he want more feats for two handed fighting).
Two-handed fighting or two weapon fighting?

[Metahuman1]

Thoughts:


1: Dips in Swordsage, Drow Fighter (Fun fact, you don't have to be a drow to take it.), would let you have x2 Dex mod to damage with selected weapons. 2 Weapon Fighting and some means to getting consistent access to sneak attack combo's well with this.

2: Frankly, offense and defense, Swordsage is more reliable. Literally dip 1 level in ANY class that get's trap finding and disable device as a skill and you can do the standard rogue job just as well.

3: Another thought is to go swift hunter. You take either 4 levels of scout, 1 level of cleric (probably cloistered cleric. It's a variant in Unearthed Arcana.), and fifteen levels of ranger. You trade one of the Cleric Domains for Travel devotion, and spend another on any domain that gives you Extra Turning as a bonus feat for it's domain power, and buy Hanks Energy Bow. (Look it up on google, it's great for archers.). And then just take archery feats.

You use Travel Devotion + Your turn undead uses to move as a swift action so that every round you get bonus damage.

Take the Swift Hunter and Improved Skirmish feats from Complete Scoundrel, and make your selections of Ranger Favored Enemy's be things that you know are immune to Skirmish and Sneak Attack like Undead and Constructs and Elementals.




If you prefer Melee, go TWF path on Ranger. Take Oversized TWF, Power attack, maybe Favored Power attack. (Maybe duel wield Rapiers or Scimitars since might as well.).

Build otherwise doesn't change, except you want to get 1 level of Barbarian in it, and use an Alternative class feature for that that's in Complete Champion. The Spirit Totem Barbarian. Use the Spirit Lion totem of the listed options.

Your combat rounds, you Charge, Full Attack with all your attack bonus and damage bonuses and lots of attacks, and then you use Tumble skill + Your swift action move to move away before ending your turn, and repeat it next round.




Like something simpler? Ask the DM to let you make an apprentice feat from the DMG 2.

Make a Barbarian, apprentice to a Hunter. That gives you Hide and Spot as class skills.

Make sure your either human with 16 int or none with 18 int. Take the Nymph's Kiss feat (Book of Exalted Deeds.). (You may want to take flaws from the Unearthed Arcana to get a couple of bonus feats.).

Take Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion. Take Whirling Frenzy from Unearthed Arcana. Take Trap Killer form Dungeonscape. Invest in Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, the latter 2 from Complete Warrior, and Battle Jumping, from one of the Forgotten realms books. Ask around, someone will tell you which one. The Tireless feat if you can get it (Endurance if you can't.) and Steadfast Determination from Players Handbook 2.

Max out Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Survival, Jump, Intimidate, and Tumble. The last one your going to get from swapping out Ride as a class skill per City Scape.

Put the points from Nymph's kiss into minor things like odd ranks here and there in swim, ride, climb, ext.

Pick a 2 handed weapon.

You can now find traps with Survival, break them with attack rolls with out setting them off, scout/sneak about using Spot, Listen, Hide and Move Silently, Do massive damage on a charge and hold your own solidly in a fight, and scare the snot out of people to demoralized them in combat, avoid a fight, or get them to give you things/information.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Two-handed fighting or two weapon fight?

Take this Sap and hit me in the head.


Thank you, I always miss those mistakes.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

How about something a bit strange? You'll be making the character at a high enough level to be able to use a nonstandard race, consider trying out a Marrulurk from Sandstorm p170. They have three racial HD and a +1 LA, but they're just as good as a Rogue of equal level with the right tricks.

You can gradually gain a template (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) and choose to indefinitely delay finishing it, so get one level of the Half-Fiend template (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a). This gives you a bunch of benefits, including the Outsider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType) (Native (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#nativeSubtype)) creature type, and Half-Fiend automatically gives you Outsider skill points for your racial HD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfFiend.htm).

Use this Half-Fiend variant (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) and base it on a Babau (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#babau) to add all the class skills listed for that fiend to the class skills for your racial HD. You'll be two levels behind the rest of the party but with some amazing ability scores and other benefits from race, and you may even be able to buy off the level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) (originally from Unearthed Arcana).

Take two levels of Rogue, and then start taking Assassin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm) or Avenger (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a) which should stack the death attack DC with your racial HD.

That's a bit of work to initially build, but it should be pretty easy to play and level up.