champion fighter is the best class

[khachaturian]

This is deliberately provocative title, but I was thinking that we often think about the merits of a class in terms of PvP rather than as part of a collaboration. Recently, I have been thinking that the great weapon master melee character is the single most important component of a highly-effective party, and that the champion fighter is the best for this role.

This point of view does depend on a strong supporting cast which can provide buffs like haste, bless, advantage from various sources like faerie fire, restrained, prone, etc.

Comparison
1. champion- action surge. extra attacks. bonus crit range synergizes well with the cleave part of great weapon master, as well as half-orc builds
2. barbarian- better at soaking damage and doesn't need allies to confer advantage
3. rogue- much less benefit from haste and bonuses to hit. easily neutralized by conditions such as fog cloud or darkness
4. battlemaster- resouce-dependent. maneuvers do things that can be covered by supporting cast
5. paladin- resource-dependent. better as a support character than primary damage
6. archer- doesn't benefit from prone. needs two feats before coming online

[bid]

Recently, I have been thinking that the great weapon master melee character is the single most important component of a highly-effective party, and that the champion fighter is the best for this role.
Nope. A single precision attack SD will add more damage than that elusive 19 you prolly won't roll in an encounter.

And, "as part of a collaboration", "the best class" has stunning strike, wolf totem spirit, or shield master.

[djreynolds]

I have played multiple champions, I'm actually torn about I how I feel.

To play a champion, you need advantage.

For melee, shield master with expertise in athletics from human prodigy or 1 level of rogue is huge

For ranged, 2 levels of rogue for expertise in stealth and uncanny dodge, allows you to hide and then strike with advantage for at least the first attack.

I prefer battle master for GWM because of either precision or tacking on trip maneuvers

Barbarian rage, reckless attack and GWM is like peanut butter and jelly and your favorite bread.

For a champion wanting to use GWM, then add on 2 levels of barbarian for reckless attack

[OldTrees1]

Recently, I have been thinking that the great weapon master melee character is the single most important component of a highly-effective party

Strange claim. Would you elaborate on why you have been thinking that? Especially focus on the highly-effective parties that do not focus around the Great Weapon Master feat.

[ad_hoc]

Many groups only have a couple encounters per long rest.

That's why the Champion isn't good in their games.

Other groups very rarely or never have encounter days with more than 2 combat encounters between short rests so Battlemasters and the like shine.

It is a rare group who have many encounters per rest. The Champion would shine in a 10 encounter day, but that is not standard.

[Grod_The_Giant]

This is deliberately provocative title, but I was thinking that we often think about the merits of a class in terms of PvP rather than as part of a collaboration.
Nope. No-one really discusses this. Even the ever-frustrating DPS arguments are about fighting monsters--which build can fill that role most effectively.


Recently, I have been thinking that the great weapon master melee character is the single most important component of a highly-effective party, and that the champion fighter is the best for this role.
You need damage, yes. GWM is a good way to do it. Champion doesn't really help you.


1. champion- action surge. extra attacks. bonus crit range synergizes well with the cleave part of great weapon master, as well as half-orc builds
Any fighter gets the first two bits, and even a 19-20 crit range doesn't happen that often.


2. barbarian- better at soaking damage and doesn't need allies to confer advantage
Advantage from Reckless Attack is a roughly equal chance of critting, but gives you a much higher chance of hitting without the crit--probably more important ultimately.


4. battlemaster- resouce-dependent. maneuvers do things that can be covered by supporting cast
Two words: Precision Attack. Turn near-misses into hits. Plus you still get four attacks and action surge.


6. archer- doesn't benefit from prone. needs two feats before coming online
This is blatantly false. An archer and a two-handed fighter benefit equally from feats: both need one feat for the -5/+10, and another feat to add a bonus action attack. The melee fighter gets a slightly higher damage, but the archer gets significantly better accuracy.

[Strangways]

This is deliberately provocative title, but I was thinking that we often think about the merits of a class in terms of PvP rather than as part of a collaboration. Recently, I have been thinking that the great weapon master melee character is the single most important component of a highly-effective party, and that the champion fighter is the best for this role.

Champion Fighter seems to be the invisible subclass, the one that no one talks about. I don't think that's because people think it's weak, just that it's dull because it doesn't have any limited-use special abilities apart from the action surge and second wind that all fighters get. It looks like it would be very strong when paired with a Druid casting Faerie Fire.

[MxKit]

This is deliberately provocative title, but I was thinking that we often think about the merits of a class in terms of PvP rather than as part of a collaboration. Recently, I have been thinking that the great weapon master melee character is the single most important component of a highly-effective party, and that the champion fighter is the best for this role.

This point of view does depend on a strong supporting cast which can provide buffs like haste, bless, advantage from various sources like faerie fire, restrained, prone, etc.

Bolding mine, but just to point out that you're contradicting yourself. You say you're viewing the build as being part of a collaboration, but you're not approaching it that way. As part of a good collaboration, there can be no "single most important component"—in fact, you say yourself in your next sentence that for the character you're proposing to shine, they depend on the others in their team, which means they aren't the single most important component. But then you immediately call the rest of the party a "supporting cast," which again belies the idea that you view things as an actual collaboration.

Also, I have to agree with the people who've pointed out that a GWM isn't actually at all necessary for a highly-effective party. Archers and Dex-based melee fighters can do comparative damage and have benefits that balance out what disadvantages they do have.

Personally, I'd say if you're going GWM and actually wanting to also focus on contributing toward making the entire party highly effective, Ancestral Barbarian is the standout, though Totem Barbarian is also incredibly good, as are Devotion, Ancients, and Redemption Paladins.

The Fighter subclasses that I think match any of these in terms of "collaborating towards/with a highly-effective party" are actually Banneret and Cavalier. They've got the Action Surge and multiple Extra Attacks if you want them, and the Banneret's ability to spread their abilities to their allies and the Cavalier's ability to totally shut down enemies come up much more often than even 18-20 crits.

And if you're not fussed with being a GWM but want to be melee, you can actually do pretty well as a Valor or Swords Bard, or a Mastermind Rogue. Or as a Monk running around and using Stunning Strike on the enemies that really need to be paralyzed, at that.

A lot of characters contribute to the party during battle in more and better ways than the Champion does, ultimately. That's why it's never interested me much; it's not even that it's a boring class, it's just a very... stand-alone class in a team-oriented game.

[Foxhound438]

while I agree that *fighters* are better at using power attack feats, battlemaster is better at it (yes, despite resource dependence- it's short rest recharge), and I would argue that arcane archer looks better for sharpshooter than battlemaster does. My big contention though is that a power attack is "needed for a highly effective team". Sure, you can deal damage faster with a build that focuses exclusively on damage, but another front line option like a paladin can do plenty of damage while using their feats and class abilities to support their team. Neither is strictly better, the point is that GWM is not in fact needed.

[LudicSavant]

This is deliberately provocative title, but I was thinking that we often think about the merits of a class in terms of PvP rather than as part of a collaboration. Recently, I have been thinking that the great weapon master melee character is the single most important component of a highly-effective party, and that the champion fighter is the best for this role.

This point of view does depend on a strong supporting cast which can provide buffs like haste, bless, advantage from various sources like faerie fire, restrained, prone, etc.

Comparison
1. champion- action surge. extra attacks. bonus crit range synergizes well with the cleave part of great weapon master, as well as half-orc builds
2. barbarian- better at soaking damage and doesn't need allies to confer advantage
3. rogue- much less benefit from haste and bonuses to hit. easily neutralized by conditions such as fog cloud or darkness
4. battlemaster- resouce-dependent. maneuvers do things that can be covered by supporting cast
5. paladin- resource-dependent. better as a support character than primary damage
6. archer- doesn't benefit from prone. needs two feats before coming online

One issue with this analysis is that it seems to be operating under the false premise that the Champion does not depend on resources, while other classes do.

Action Surge? That's a resource. Second Wind? That's a resource. Indomitable? That's a resource. Your Hit Points? That's a resource, as well, and you'll have to rest or convert other resources (like spell slots) into it when you run too low just as surely as when the Wizard runs out of spell slots. The amount of buffs that other people are spending on you in the course of you accomplishing a given task? This, too, is a resource. You don't get off the hook just because someone else in the party is spending that resource.

So, for example, while you might be assuming that you're getting Bless from the Cleric, the Paladin is getting Bless from himself, while the Cleric is freed up to cast yet another powerful Concentration spell... or simply saving their spell slot resource altogether.

Also worth noting is the fact that using one resource up can reduce the amount of resources you'll use overall. For example, if one character uses some offensive resources to end the fight 3 rounds earlier, that's more damage you can take before everyone needs to rest or start spending healing slots or whatever.

[ZorroGames]

I like pie... I mean Champion Fighter.

Given how few players play “meat shields” locally (I define that as Barbarian, Ranger, Fighter, Monk, Moon Druid, heavy armor Clerics,) it can be challenging (and fun) to be the guy everyone tries to hide behind to shoot/cast, especially when a one person wall cannot filter out all the baddies. Say, 15 bandits and 12 kobolds to be dealt with including leader and caster types...

I do play other classes but except for last game (8 PCs, 3 fighters,) if I do not play some form of martial it is 50% chance of an all squishy casting party. Not pretty...