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View Full Version : Using a build focused on trip and grapple at high levels



King of Nowhere
2018-01-01, 10:14 PM
I have a monk who's focused on tripping and grappling and stunning, and so far he's doing his job quite well and being useful to the team despite being a monk.
I worry, however, that this is going to lose effectiveness at higher levels. Enemies with freedom of movement are completely immune to grapple. I am not sure what tripping does against flying opponents (and I suppose it would depend on the method of flight). Stunning will still remain somewhat effective, but many creatures are immune.
It's particularly bad because my character's backstory is centered on rivality with spellcasters. Keeping high saving throws and being able to counter most caster strategies is a primary objective of my build (we're not total amateurs, but we're at a level of optimization where it's still feasible; especially since I'm a better optimizer than the DM). But a lich with fly and freedom of movement would be flat-out immune to all my best shots. I'd be left dealing 10-15 damages per hit, a pittance.

So I'm asking, are there ways around those things? Can I manage to use my stronger skills against someone with a 3rd and 4th level protection spells (without asking the DM to houserule it)?
What does tripping do to a flying opponent anyway?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2018-01-01, 10:41 PM
You may want to consider the Mage Slayer line of feats in CA, they're extremely decent if you don't have a caster level for them to hinder and they seem thematically appropriate.

Try to pick up an item that can activate Antimagic Field. That shuts down Freedom of Movement, so you can activate that and go grapple a spellcaster. It even prevents a lich from using their supernatural paralyzing touch on you. You'll need mundane flight for that to work, probably a Feathered Wings graft in Fiend Folio, or become a Dragonborn of Bahamut for the wings. For Antimagic Field, a custom command word item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) such as a ring that activates Antimagic Field (6th) at a caster level of 12th (minimum for Forge Ring) comes to 129,600 gp. That AMF has a two hour duration, so say it can be split up into ten-minute increments or fractions thereof but only twelve such per day, so it's technically only using the spell once per day, and it's one fifth the cost, or 25,920 gp. That's a standard action to activate, but that should be exactly what you'll need to combat such opponents.

Rainshine
2018-01-01, 10:50 PM
Tetori (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo-monk-archetypes/tetori/) is a way for monks to be able to deal with FoM.
For your tripping flying creatures question, yes, IF it's winged. I think it's in Rules Compendium, but basically it makes them fall as if they didn't go forward enough. Doesn't work against Fly spells though.

emeraldstreak
2018-01-02, 07:45 AM
Tripping a flyer sends them into a tailspin, it's pretty bad for them.

Don't forget Silence is the poor man's Antimagic Field.

King of Nowhere
2018-01-04, 11:13 AM
Tripping a flyer sends them into a tailspin, it's pretty bad for them.

Don't forget Silence is the poor man's Antimagic Field.

What's, mechanically, a tailspin?

I mean, I think I could take this flying wizard and flip him so that he's staring at the sky, and it wouldd be easier for me to hit him afterwards, so it would be a similar effect to tripping on the ground, except that he can still move at full speed in every direction. But is there some rule for it, or we have to improvise?

Twurps
2018-01-05, 11:48 AM
Tripping a Flying Defender
You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack. You can trip an opponent only if it is up to one size category larger than you. You can’t trip a burrowing creature, an incorporeal creature, a swimming creature, or a creature that doesn’t rely on limbs for locomotion.
...
A winged creature can be tripped, and if it is, it falls as if it didn’t maintain its minimum forward speed. See Fly, page 92.


Minimum Forward Speed

If a flying creature fails to maintain its minimum forward speed, it must land at the end of its movement. If it is too high above the ground to land, it falls straight down, descending 150 feet in the first round of falling. If this distance brings it to the ground, it takes falling damage. If the fall doesn’t bring the creature to the ground, it must spend its next turn recovering from the stall. It must succeed on a DC 20 Reflex save to recover. Otherwise it falls another 300 feet. If it hits the ground, it takes falling damage. Otherwise, it has another chance to recover on its next turn.

And at least 8 characters of my own....