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View Full Version : Antimagic Fields and Iron Walls



Sornjss Lichdom
2007-08-22, 09:01 PM
It says in the description of iron wall that it has a 50% chance of falling either way if you summon it on a vertical plane and its not attached to other objects, so if you summon it right infront of a antimagic field and it falls toward unsuspecting mage, would it be subject to dispell magic, willl save of the caster, be unconjured, or is it itself nonmagical and there for not effected by the field? Because if not then the little caster has to make a reflex save or get a nice 10d6 damage total.

Also can a caster use some spell to make sure it falls in the right direction. Like telekanieses (not spelled right) or some other shoving spell.

ty in advance.

Arbitrarity
2007-08-22, 09:04 PM
The wall is non-magical. It's an instantaneous conjuration. The wizard gets a reflex save to negate though :smallmad:

Bigby's hands (some of them) probably can push it over (Bull rush style), and telekenesis probably could for the same reason. Not strictly RAW, but close.

I mean, if it pushes people, why can't it push objects?

tannish2
2007-08-23, 12:24 AM
instantaneous conjuration, i think it could even go off IN the antimagic field

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-08-23, 02:33 AM
instantaneous conjuration, i think it could even go off IN the antimagic field

No, it could not.

Aquillion
2007-08-23, 02:50 AM
I'd say Bigby's hands and Telekinesis pushing it over is certainly in the RAW:


If you desire, the wall can be created vertically resting on a flat surface but not attached to the surface, so that it can be tipped over to fall on and crush creatures beneath it. The wall is 50% likely to tip in either direction if left unpushed. Creatures can push the wall in one direction rather than letting it fall randomly. A creature must make a DC 40 Strength check to push the wall over. Creatures with room to flee the falling wall may do so by making successful Reflex saves. Any Large or smaller creature that fails takes 10d6 points of damage. The wall cannot crush Huge and larger creatures. It says "creatures can push the wall"; it doesn't limit how they can push the wall. Using telekinesis or Bigby's whatever hand would certainly qualify... they all have strength scores, too, don't they?

But I have a better idea. Note this:

You cause a flat, vertical iron wall to spring into being. The wall inserts itself into any surrounding nonliving material if its area is sufficient to do so. The wall cannot be conjured so that it occupies the same space as a creature or another object. It must always be a flat plane, though you can shape its edges to fit the available space.The "shape its edges to fit the available space" and "inserts itself" wording has a lot of potential. Sadly, it specifies 'nonliving', so you can't directly summon a wall grounded into two nearby opponents (what would that even DO? It sounds messy, in any case.)

But you can attach the wall to their armor. The armor of two people, each standing at one endpoint of the wall, certainly counts as 'surrounding nonliving material'. That armor would get its owner's saving throw, except that Wall of Iron doesn't grant a saving throw at that point. It ignores spell resistance, too.

The only problem is the 'same space' bit. If it's just speaking in physics terms (no two objects can ever occupy the same space at the same time, and no summoning a wall that literally overlaps a person), then we're fine. We're not putting the armor in space occupied by something else; we're just putting it right up against the armor and using the 'inserts itself' and 'shape its edges' bit to mold it so closely that it becomes essentially attached.

If it means 'same space' as in 'same space on a grid', though, it could be trickier. Even then, though... the armor of two people standing at either endpoint is still 'surrounding' the wall, and still 'nonliving'. Hence, a wall of iron can attach to them even from the adjacent space (picture spaces as being sort of fluid; their space still ends where the wall begins, but now their armor is stuck at the very edge of it, serving as one of the wall's supports.)

Actually... come to think of it, players fight nonliving opponents all the time. As it's worded, the spell would specifically allow you to ground a wall of iron into a large undead, golem, or similar construct.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-08-23, 03:41 AM
I am quite sure they mean the space on the grid.

The wall is not surrounded unless the non-living part take up the entire grid space, which very few creatures do. (Even Oozes are living and seldom wear armor)

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-08-23, 06:40 AM
Cool Ill talk to my DM, this is really a specific case, as in it doesn't happen that often. And Illl give bigby's forceful hand a look through.

nagora
2007-08-23, 06:47 AM
But you can attach the wall to their armor.

I would only allow that if the people were right up against some very solid object themselve; otherwise I'd rule that the wall just gave them a huge shove. Wall of Iron is already too powerful without allowing that sort of abuse.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-08-23, 05:11 PM
Or you say they have to be classified as a large or huge creature wearing metal armor or what ever. Not mediam.