Can/Does the caster scan themselves with Detect Magic?

[gr8artist]

If a caster is unaware of a spell used on them, are they made aware of it if they cast Detect Magic?
Can they scan themselves specifically to search for enchantments and curses and such?
Are they alerted to the presence of a spell effect on them if they're scanning an enemy or piece of loot?

Official answers for 3.5 or Pathfinder (or 5th edition) would be good, but I'm also interested to see what people think it would or wouldn't do.

[Malimar]

3.5e (and PF has identical language): By RAW, no:


A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes. Most cones are either bursts or emanations (see above), and thus won’t go around corners.
You select any grid intersection next to to your square for the point of origin, and you can't then aim it inwards.

By my not-RAW ruling, I'd probably allow a person to scan themselves, but if they're not deliberately doing that, they wouldn't normally be caught in the area of an attempt to scan others.

[Zanos]

You explicitly get a spellcraft check against spells targeted on you, though. So stiill+silent isnt charm everyone without them noticing.

[Crake]

3.5e (and PF has identical language): By RAW, no:

You select any grid intersection next to to your square for the point of origin, and you can't then aim it inwards.

By my not-RAW ruling, I'd probably allow a person to scan themselves, but if they're not deliberately doing that, they wouldn't normally be caught in the area of an attempt to scan others.

Huh... I've actually always let players in my games shoot cones backward through their own squares if they wanted to for some reason or another.


You explicitly get a spellcraft check against spells targeted on you, though. So stiill+silent isnt charm everyone without them noticing.

You only get a spellcraft check if you successfully save against a spell.

[Zanos]

You only get a spellcraft check if you successfully save against a spell.

After rolling a saving throw against a spell targeted on you, determine what that spell was. No action required. No retry.
Nothing about success.

[Gruftzwerg]

You could ask your DM if the "magical waves" are reflected by mirrors and use one if he allows it^^.

[Ravens_cry]

You could ask your DM if the "magical waves" are reflected by mirrors and use one if he allows it^^.

But then you wouldn't be able to identify magic mirrors, and there's a few.

[Mordaedil]

Nothing about success.

I think the implication is that if you failed your save, it's already too late in most cases.

Fireball not withstanding.

[DeTess]

But then you wouldn't be able to identify magic mirrors, and there's a few.

Just look at the back of the mirror. Problem solved.

[Crake]

Nothing about success.

Huh, for some reason I always thought it was after a successful save, ie identifying based on the hostile tingle you get. Must be a houserule I made up and forgot about then.

[Mr Adventurer]

Why wouldn't you get the same indicators on a failed save?

[Duke of Urrel]

If a caster is unaware of a spell used on them, are they made aware of it if they cast Detect Magic?
Can they scan themselves specifically to search for enchantments and curses and such?

Remember that the Detect Magic spell takes a long time to work. After you cast the spell, you can sense only the presence or absence of magic. After you concentrate for one round, you can count the number of active spells in the 60-foot cone that you are scanning. After you concentrate for two rounds, you can locate these spells as magic auras, and I personally allow you to see these auras with your own eyes, provided that you are not blind.

I agree completely with Malimar's "not-RAW" ruling. I don't allow the "away from you" phrase to be a stumbling block.

I imagine – as I believe Crake also imagines – that the Detect Magic spell eventually (after you concentrate for two rounds) empowers you to see magic auras with your eyes. Therefore, the "away from you" phrase really only means "away from your eyes." In other words, the 60-foot cone spreads forward, backward, left, right, up, down, depending on where you turn your head. (It's only for the sake of easy measuring that the apex of the 60-foot cone is always assumed to be one of the corners of one of the game squares that your character occupies.) I reason that you can use the Detect Magic spell to see magic auras surrounding any part of your own body that you can see with your own eyes. This means that you can't see magic auras that surround your own eyes or a magic aura that covers your own face unless you look in a mirror.


Are they alerted to the presence of a spell effect on them if they're scanning an enemy or piece of loot?

No. I agree with Malimar again.


You explicitly get a spellcraft check against spells targeted on you, though. So stiill+silent isnt charm everyone without them noticing.


Huh, for some reason I always thought it was after a successful save, ie identifying based on the hostile tingle you get. Must be a houserule I made up and forgot about then.


Why wouldn't you get the same indicators on a failed save?

There are different ways to identify a spell with Spellcraft skill, and there are even different Spellcraft DCs because of this.

1. If you notice a spell being cast – because you can hear its verbal component or see its somatic component – you can identify the spell by making a Spellcraft check at DC 15 plus the spell's spell level.

2. If a spell has already been cast but is still "in place and in effect," so that you can "see or detect" the spell's effects, you can identify the spell by making a Spellcraft check at DC 20 plus the spell's spell level.


You can also make a Spellcraft check at the same DC (20 + SL) to identify any material that has been "shaped or created" by magic. As a DM, I require you to take a move action to observe this material before I let you make this Spellcraft check. This is the same move action that I require you to make to "interact with" something in order to make a Will save to disbelieve an illusion (unless the illusion interacts with you, in which case you don't need to take any action yourself). If you interact with something that happens to be illusory, you get to make both a Will save and a Spellcraft check. These are my own house rules.

3. Mordaedil has helpfully pointed out that you don't need Spellcraft to know when you yourself have been hit with the Fireball spell. However, Spellcraft may still be useful when you are affected by a spell whose effect is not so obvious. Even if a spell doesn't have an observable effect, you get a Spellcraft check to identify the spell if it is "targeted on you." The DC of this check is the highest of all: 25 plus the spell's caster level.


As a DM, I let you make this Spellcraft check whether the spell is a Target spell or not, but it must be a spell that allows you to make a saving throw; otherwise, you get no Spellcraft check. I agree with Zanos that it makes no difference whether your saving throw against the spell succeeds or fails; in either case, you may identify the spell. Of course, identifying a spell after you have failed to save against it may not help you much. It's not very comforting to know that you feel the compulsive need to attack your comrade because you are subject to the True Domination spell rather than Dominate Person spell.

Finally, that "hostile force or tingle" makes you aware that you've been hit by a spell only if you make a successful saving throw against this spell. If your saving throw fails, you may feel nothing at all (unless the thing that hits you is something like a Fireball).


Indeed, if you don't see somebody cast the Charm Person spell upon you and you fail your Will save against it, I believe you are perfectly unaware that you are charmed unless you make a Spellcraft check at DC 26. If you do see the spellcaster and your Will save fails, but your Spellcraft check succeeds, I believe you know that you've been charmed but may not mind it at all. In this case, I let you make an opposed Charisma check with the spellcaster to determine whether you recognize that the spellcaster has committed a "hostile act" against you (which breaks the charm) or whether you are so confident that the spellcaster is your good buddy that you're sure they must have charmed you for a good reason. These are my own rules.

[gr8artist]

I should have pondered it a bit longer.

Does the caster get a false or misleading "positive" every time he searches for magic because he's picking up his own aura? No, no one would ever play that way.
So the caster does not scan themselves every time they use Detect Magic.

I agree that if they're purposefully trying to scan themselves, they should be able to.

[Jormengand]

Of course, the other problem, RAW, with detect magic is that it's a spell, so it will, technically, detect itself.