Portent, Luck, and crit fails

[Aaedimus]

So in the game I'm playing I am a divination mage with portent and the luck feat right now. My question is if either of these abilities interact with a crit fail a team member makes that is going to hit me.

Once I have been randomly selected as the target of the crit fail attack, does that make it an attack directed towards me that I can cancel with either of those abilities?

If I rolled a 20 and replaced their dice with my own, would they crit me, or their original target?

[Tanarii]

Critical fails & redirected attacks to an ally aren't rules, so it's up to your DM how they interact with his house rule.

[Aaedimus]

So than, by Raw, what's the actual rule for a crit fail? You just drop your weapon?

[ShadowSandbag]

As far as I know RAW a crit fail is just an automatic failure. Thats it.

[Aaedimus]

I see... Thanks! :)

[Matrix_Walker]

A roll of 1 misses regardless of modifiers, but there are no additional effects by RAW.

[Toadkiller]

Was just talking about this the other day with a friend. Posts above are accurate but the idea of a critical fail is pretty wide spread as a house rule.

I don’t really like it though as it doesn’t seem very heroic to have something worse than missing happen. This is indeed check with your dm territory. But if it was my game I would certainly let a teammate expend resources to let a natural one roll again.

We play with inspiration points which are often shared that way. It promotes team spirit is nothing else. We will sometimes have someone make a swing at making up some fluff about his player 1 almost flubbed their attack but player 2 did something that helped them.

[Arial Black]

Point 1: as mentioned, there is no such thing as a 'crit fail' in the rules, so we cannot tell you how the rules apply to this situation.

Point 2: if the DM is homebrewing crit fails, and you have Portent or some such ability, you don't wait until the crit fail is redirected to an ally and then try to use Portent! What you do is alter the original d20 result of '1' which would be a crit fail if you let it stand, so that the d20 never actually was a crit fail.

Wrong way:-
Player: I attack. Darn! Nat 1.
DM: Now I can use my totally fun rule where you accidentally cut your friend's head off.
You: I'll use Portent so that my friend's head isn't all the way off.

Correct way:-
Player: I attack. Darn! Nat 1.
You: I use Portent to change the nat 1 into something else before the DM has a chance to inflict his 'fun' on us!

[The_Jette]

Point 1: as mentioned, there is no such thing as a 'crit fail' in the rules, so we cannot tell you how the rules apply to this situation.

Point 2: if the DM is homebrewing crit fails, and you have Portent or some such ability, you don't wait until the crit fail is redirected to an ally and then try to use Portent! What you do is alter the original d20 result of '1' which would be a crit fail if you let it stand, so that the d20 never actually was a crit fail.

Wrong way:-
Player: I attack. Darn! Nat 1.
DM: Now I can use my totally fun rule where you accidentally cut your friend's head off.
You: I'll use Portent so that my friend's head isn't all the way off.

Correct way:-
Player: I attack. Darn! Nat 1.
You: I use Portent to change the nat 1 into something else before the DM has a chance to inflict his 'fun' on us!

Just a quick point of interest: RAW, Portent can only be used before the dice are rolled.

[Aaedimus]

However you can't use a portent or luck dice for that matter for a team member's attack roll, so the only possible triggering Factor would be that you are being targeted by an attack.

[The_Jette]

However you can't use a portent or luck dice for that matter for a team member's attack roll, so the only possible triggering Factor would be that you are being targeted by an attack.

Portent can be used on allies, enemies, or yourself. Rolls you get for Lucky are the only ones that can only be used on yourself. I have a Diviner Wizard with the Lucky feat right now, and have inwardly cursed myself repeatedly for using Portent instead of Lucky on myself, when my ally needed help.

Edit: When I said you can only use Lucky on yourself, I meant your rolls, and the attack rolls made against you. Just for clarification's sake...

[PhoenixPhyre]

However you can't use a portent or luck dice for that matter for a team member's attack roll, so the only possible triggering Factor would be that you are being targeted by an attack.

Portent can be used on ANY d20 roll, but must be declared before the roll. Luck can only be used on your rolls, but you can decide after the roll.

[Aaedimus]

Luck can be used in an attack against you.

"You can also spend one luck point when an attack roll is made against you. Roll a d20, and then choose whether the attack uses the attacker’s roll or yours."

I see where I messed Portent.

[Aaedimus]

Completely forgot I could influence rolls for/against other players with Portent. Thanks for reminding me!

L1 Arcana domain Cleric (5 cantrips)
L6 Divination Wizard (4 cantrips)
Magic Initiate (2 cantrips)
Luck feat

It's allot to track.
-the DM sometimes fears my feats of suggestion and illusion.

You know.. Last game i used all 3 luck dice to avoid crits, so my ranger crit failed and hit me 3 times, he additionally accidentally killed my familiar with another fire arrow, losing a magic item he was holding.

[Burnteyes]

Was just talking about this the other day with a friend. Posts above are accurate but the idea of a critical fail is pretty wide spread as a house rule.

I don’t really like it though as it doesn’t seem very heroic to have something worse than missing happen.

First, this is really a different thread entirely, that I think worthy of discussion.

That said, "crit fails" can actually be quite fun depending on the DM and party. You can make quirky odd things happen or even "require" the players to do something silly. Again, really it's own thread.

[Aaedimus]

As a DM, My personal take on crit fails is, either nothing happens, something bad happens, or possibly someone gets hurt.

If the attack fails and is redirected, you have to roll another attack roll against your team- mate, (possibly worth disadvantage) with no profficiency bonus, ensuring that accidentally letting your sword slip out and fly towards a team mate isn't more accurate than a practiced planned attack.

Crit fail rolling charts are fun.

[Naanomi]

Crit fails, if bad enough, make the Dodge action and other sources of disadvantage, particularly funny

[Arial Black]

Completely forgot I could influence rolls for/against other players with Portent. Thanks for reminding me!

L1 Arcana domain Cleric (5 cantrips)
L6 Divination Wizard (4 cantrips)
Magic Initiate (2 cantrips)
Luck feat

It's allot to track.
-the DM sometimes fears my feats of suggestion and illusion.

You know.. Last game i used all 3 luck dice to avoid crits, so my ranger crit failed and hit me 3 times, he additionally accidentally killed my familiar with another fire arrow, losing a magic item he was holding.

Our 20th level party imagines itself in a world which seems realistic, given the magic etc. Realistic consequences.

I hate it when the DM runs the game like the Keystone Cops!

Oh, the best fighter in the world has accidentally chopped his own head off! Again! Oh, what fun, don't you think guys? Guys? Oh, you all accidentally killed each other. Again. How did we get to 20th level?

[Arial Black]

Imagine: 'Tennis, the RPG!' In this game, play the part of Murray or Federer! Roll to see if that backhand down the line is too long!

Now imagine adding the 'fun' of crit fails. In every match, each player makes hundreds of shots/attack rolls. One in 20 of them is a crit fail, with 'fun' results like 'lose your grip; roll 1d8 for direction, 1d100 for distance and 1d8 for damage if your racket hits a spectator', 'fall over; roll 1d4 to determine which limb broke'.

It would be carnage! Each match would end up with 30 crowd deaths and two players with four broken limbs and holding their rackets in their teeth!

'Fun', maybe. But not tennis.

[Aett_Thorn]

Imagine: 'Tennis, the RPG!' In this game, play the part of Murray or Federer! Roll to see if that backhand down the line is too long!

Now imagine adding the 'fun' of crit fails. In every match, each player makes hundreds of shots/attack rolls. One in 20 of them is a crit fail, with 'fun' results like 'lose your grip; roll 1d8 for direction, 1d100 for distance and 1d8 for damage if your racket hits a spectator', 'fall over; roll 1d4 to determine which limb broke'.

It would be carnage! Each match would end up with 30 crowd deaths and two players with four broken limbs and holding their rackets in their teeth!

'Fun', maybe. But not tennis.

I might actually watch a game like that.