I'm Roleplaying A Male Human Rogue Who's A Jerk

[Bartmanhomer]

Hey everybody. I'm actually playing a D&D 3.5 game where my character along with 3 more people who's in another world named Nessia. So far my character is Mikey Dangerously who's happen to be a True Neutral Male Human Rogue who's a total jerk but he's isn't evil. So far I can one of the players shorty. Then I ditch the team to start my own exploring. I met a food vendor tiefling who sells bratwurst and drinks. I paid the tiefling my food and drink and I was very nice to him. Anyway I'm trying to roleplay as a successful jerk. Can anybody give me a few pointers? :smile:

[Calthropstu]

A true neutral jerk is probably going to be saying "not my problem" a lot. He won't go out of his way to hurt people, but he might insult them quite a bit.
Some things you might see someone like this do:

You are given a quest to save a woman's husband from a group of orcs. But before you take the job you demand sex as an additional payment.

You are haggling with a merchant and don't like the price. Call her a bitch and storm off.

A child is playing nearby, the noise iritates you. Go and kick their ball into the lake.

They are jerk moves but not exactly evil.

[Crake]

A true neutral jerk is probably going to be saying "not my problem" a lot. He won't go out of his way to hurt people, but he might insult them quite a bit.
Some things you might see someone like this do:

You are given a quest to save a woman's husband from a group of orcs. But before you take the job you demand sex as an additional payment.

You are haggling with a merchant and don't like the price. Call her a bitch and storm off.

A child is playing nearby, the noise iritates you. Go and kick their ball into the lake.

They are jerk moves but not exactly evil.

Coersion for sex is pretty much tantamount to rape, so that one's pretty damn evil.

[Pleh]

Coersion for sex is pretty much tantamount to rape, so that one's pretty damn evil.

As distasteful as I find it, this does depend quite a bit on circumstances. It's only coersion if she has no other reasonable hope or option (if he's just one of a dozen adventurers passing through town, she can just go ask another hero for a better price) and/or if she isn't simply fine with the exchange of services (for some characters, that is just their job and it might not bother her to trade in that way).

Generally, yes, you are totally right.

[Celestia]

You seem to post a thread like this every other week. Just how many games do you play in? O.o

[Calthropstu]

I have to disagree. Sex as payment is an acceptable practice in many places so long as it is with unmarried men and women. It's a real jerk move for someone who's married though.
I won't debate it further due to the huge risk of going into politics and stuff, but I will say this:
If you consider it evil, then nearly every knight, most nobles and most royals throughout history are evil as the practice was genuinely acceptable.
It is, even today in most countries including the us, legal to offer to accept sex as payment for late rent to avoid eviction.
I see little difference to this. Yes, it's genuinely a real jerk move. But evil? And rape? I would have to say not.

[Keltest]

I would be very, very careful about this. Playing a character who's a jerk or otherwise unpleasant tends to get the other party members questioning why theyre letting you travel with them. More importantly, it has a high likelihood of bothering the other players at your table, which is in the top three Things To Avoid in a game.

If you intend to be a jerk, be practical about it, and make sure that theres usually some visible benefit gained from being a jerk. Force quest givers to be as specific as possible about what theyre paying you, demand payment up front, be the one to suggest that collateral damage isn't necessarily your party's problem to deal with (but don't push the issue if others disagree!). Don't just be mean for the sake of being mean, there should always be something youre trying to get out of it, even if its petty like momentary satisfaction.

And I would be carful about the sex thing. That's a fast road to making the other players uncomfortable even if they cant articulate why.

[Bartmanhomer]

You seem to post a thread like this every other week. Just how many games do you play in? O.o

Three games going into four games. All D&D 3.5 games.

[Bartmanhomer]

A true neutral jerk is probably going to be saying "not my problem" a lot. He won't go out of his way to hurt people, but he might insult them quite a bit.
Some things you might see someone like this do:

You are given a quest to save a woman's husband from a group of orcs. But before you take the job you demand sex as an additional payment.

You are haggling with a merchant and don't like the price. Call her a bitch and storm off.

A child is playing nearby, the noise iritates you. Go and kick their ball into the lake.

They are jerk moves but not exactly evil.

I wouldn't go that far with the sex thing. :eek:

[Troacctid]

I have to disagree. Sex as payment is an acceptable practice in many places so long as it is with unmarried men and women. It's a real jerk move for someone who's married though.
I won't debate it further due to the huge risk of going into politics and stuff, but I will say this:
If you consider it evil, then nearly every knight, most nobles and most royals throughout history are evil as the practice was genuinely acceptable.
It is, even today in most countries including the us, legal to offer to accept sex as payment for late rent to avoid eviction.
I see little difference to this. Yes, it's genuinely a real jerk move. But evil? And rape? I would have to say not.
If your tenant is late paying her rent, threatening to evict her unless she sleeps with you is absolutely coercion and is 100% not okay. That's evil as ****. Don't do that. I don't see what's "political" about this.

[Red Fel]

If your tenant is late paying her rent, threatening to evict her unless she sleeps with you is absolutely coercion and is 100% not okay. That's evil as ****. Don't do that. I don't see what's "political" about this.

Agreed.

If the scenario is, "My husband has been kidnapped by orcs who may kill him, please help," and your response is, "Sure, but first, [redacted]," then that's coercion, and pretty Evil. You can't make the argument that, "Well, lots of people trade sex for goods or services," because she didn't offer, you demanded. You can't make the argument that, "Well, she can always find some other hero to help her," because as we speak, her husband may be on the brink of death. It's coercion, and that's vile. Also Vile.

Back to the OP, Bartman, here's a thought: Do you know anyone in real life who is a "total jerk?" Do you like them? Do you trust them? Do you trust them with your life?

That's what your party should be thinking right now. As a general rule, you want to play characters who cause the rest of the party to think, "Hey, let's keep this guy around." That's the goal. You don't want, "Hey, let's ditch this guy in the nearest tavern." Or, "Hey, let's tell him we're waiting here for him, then run off as soon as he's gone." And definitely not, "Well, ****s gonna die tonight."

That's why I, personally, avoid playing "total jerks," and likewise discourage others from doing so. You can play a character with personal flaws - stubborn, ignorant, sarcastic, or what-have-you - but he has to have redeeming qualities that produce a character whom other people want to keep around.

So, take a look at your character: Is he somebody you would want to keep around? If so, great. If not, why would your party?

[WesleyVos]

It is, even today in most countries including the us, legal to offer to accept sex as payment for late rent to avoid eviction.

Given that I can't offer legal advice outside Virginia, I would caution you generally to review your state's laws before acting on this assumption. It may not be accurate.

[Bartmanhomer]

Agreed.

If the scenario is, "My husband has been kidnapped by orcs who may kill him, please help," and your response is, "Sure, but first, [redacted]," then that's coercion, and pretty Evil. You can't make the argument that, "Well, lots of people trade sex for goods or services," because she didn't offer, you demanded. You can't make the argument that, "Well, she can always find some other hero to help her," because as we speak, her husband may be on the brink of death. It's coercion, and that's vile. Also Vile.

Back to the OP, Bartman, here's a thought: Do you know anyone in real life who is a "total jerk?" Do you like them? Do you trust them? Do you trust them with your life?

That's what your party should be thinking right now. As a general rule, you want to play characters who cause the rest of the party to think, "Hey, let's keep this guy around." That's the goal. You don't want, "Hey, let's ditch this guy in the nearest tavern." Or, "Hey, let's tell him we're waiting here for him, then run off as soon as he's gone." And definitely not, "Well, ****s gonna die tonight."

That's why I, personally, avoid playing "total jerks," and likewise discourage others from doing so. You can play a character with personal flaws - stubborn, ignorant, sarcastic, or what-have-you - but he has to have redeeming qualities that produce a character whom other people want to keep around.

So, take a look at your character: Is he somebody you would want to keep around? If so, great. If not, why would your party?
I do know a few people who's a total jerk. So yes.

[Red Fel]

I do know a few people who's a total jerk. So yes.

You know them. But do you trust them? Would you say that, if you were fighting something evil and powerful, this is a person you would trust to have your back and not abandon you?

And do you like them? I know a few people who are total jerks. I don't like them. I will avoid contact with them if possible. I do not consider them friends, and probably would not go on anything resembling a quest with them if I had the choice.

[Bartmanhomer]

You know them. But do you trust them? Would you say that, if you were fighting something evil and powerful, this is a person you would trust to have your back and not abandon you?

And do you like them? I know a few people who are total jerks. I don't like them. I will avoid contact with them if possible. I do not consider them friends, and probably would not go on anything resembling a quest with them if I had the choice.
No I don't trust them at all. Not even a little.

[Keltest]

No I don't trust them at all. Not even a little.

Consider then that a lot of people will feel that way towards your character. Being mean is easy. Think of some things your character does and brings to the party that will get people to keep him around. Preferably with more detail than "is loyal".

[Red Fel]

No I don't trust them at all. Not even a little.


Consider then that a lot of people will feel that way towards your character. Being mean is easy. Think of some things your character does and brings to the party that will get people to keep him around. Preferably with more detail than "is loyal".

This.

As Keltest says, if you don't trust a "total jerk," your party probably won't, either. But you, as a person, aren't put in a position where you need to trust a total jerk. Your party is - they need to be able to count on everyone in that party. If you can't trust your meatshield to take hits, if you can't trust your trapfinder to disarm traps, if you can't trust your party face to negotiate on behalf of everybody, they are a liability, not an asset. You don't travel with somebody like that.

So instead of focusing on "how do I make my character a total jerk," you should focus on "what does my character bring to the party that makes them want to keep him around?"

[Zanos]

Agreed.

If the scenario is, "My husband has been kidnapped by orcs who may kill him, please help," and your response is, "Sure, but first, [redacted]," then that's coercion, and pretty Evil.
Someone is requesting a service from you. You are requesting unfair payment. That scenario, by itself, is not coercion. For it to be the coercion, you would have had to create the need for your service in the first place, and then request payment for that service. I.E. kidnap or arrange for the kidnapping of the husband yourself.

I do think in general that a character that requests for payment in sex for a rescue operation is kind of bizarre, and would probably not fly at most tables, including my own.

[Keltest]

Someone is requesting a service from you. You are requesting unfair payment. That scenario, by itself, is not coercion. For it to be the coercion, you would have had to create the need for your service in the first place, and then request payment for that service. I.E. kidnap or arrange for the kidnapping of the husband yourself.

I do think in general that a character that requests for payment in sex for a rescue operation is kind of bizarre, and would probably not fly at most tables, including my own.

Technically, force or threats are all that's needed for coercion. In this case, the threat is that her husband will not be rescued in time or at all.

[Zanos]

Technically, force or threats are all that's needed for coercion. In this case, the threat is that her husband will not be rescued in time or at all.
That isn't a threat. A bodyguard isn't threatening you for not providing pro-bono services when you're in immediate danger he has nothing to do with.

[Bartmanhomer]

Ok just to be really clear with everybody, there's no sex in this game. I don't know why everyone bring sex up this topic. All I'm saying how can I become a successful jerk in the game and Red Del brings up good points. Just for the sake of not derailing this sex topic in this thread. I just letting you know that there no sex at all in the game I'm playing.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I would be very, very careful about this. Playing a character who's a jerk or otherwise unpleasant tends to get the other party members questioning why theyre letting you travel with them. More importantly, it has a high likelihood of bothering the other players at your table, which is in the top three Things To Avoid in a game.

If you intend to be a jerk, be practical about it, and make sure that theres usually some visible benefit gained from being a jerk. Force quest givers to be as specific as possible about what theyre paying you, demand payment up front, be the one to suggest that collateral damage isn't necessarily your party's problem to deal with (but don't push the issue if others disagree!). Don't just be mean for the sake of being mean, there should always be something youre trying to get out of it, even if its petty like momentary satisfaction.

And I would be carful about the sex thing. That's a fast road to making the other players uncomfortable even if they cant articulate why.
This is by far the best advice that's been given. It's a really thin line between "my character is being a jerk" and "I as a player am being a jerk," and it's not one you want to step over. Adding to Keltest, you might also vague up some of the jerkish roleplaying-- instead of saying "You short idiot" directly, try "Mikey needles you a bit about your height." It emphasizes the distinction between you and your character, gets the characterization across without so much of the accompanying negative emotions, and by specifying the level of jerk-itude, you make sure you don't accidentally overshoot and upset someone in real life.

[Goaty14]

instead of saying "You short idiot" directly, try "Mikey needles you a bit about your height."

Ahem (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html)

:belkar:"Generic comment questioning your parentage"

"Mumbled statement disparaging your masculinity"

[Doctor Awkward]

Someone is requesting a service from you. You are requesting unfair payment. That scenario, by itself, is not coercion. For it to be the coercion, you would have had to create the need for your service in the first place, and then request payment for that service. I.E. kidnap or arrange for the kidnapping of the husband yourself.

I do think in general that a character that requests for payment in sex for a rescue operation is kind of bizarre, and would probably not fly at most tables, including my own.

To be clear, requesting sex or sexual favors as a form of payment is a form of sexual harassment, regardless of whether any coercion is involved. It is very illegal in most developed countries.


So you are pretty much arguing how severe a felon the character is at this point.

[Bartmanhomer]

Ok just to be really clear with everybody, there's no sex in this game. I don't know why everyone bring sex up this topic. All I'm saying how can I become a successful jerk in the game and Red Del brings up good points. Just for the sake of not derailing this sex topic in this thread. I just letting you know that there no sex at all in the game I'm playing.

Didn't anybody even read what I post? There's no sex in this game. :mad:

[P.F.]

Didn't anybody even read what I post? There's no sex in this game. :mad:
Noted. Moving on.

This is by far the best advice that's been given. It's a really thin line between "my character is being a jerk" and "I as a player am being a jerk," and it's not one you want to step over. Adding to Keltest, you might also vague up some of the jerkish roleplaying-- instead of saying "You short idiot" directly, try "Mikey needles you a bit about your height."


Ahem (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html)

:belkar:"Generic comment questioning your parentage"

"Mumbled statement disparaging your masculinity"
This is really sound advice. Plus playing it for laughs has the added advantage of making the players like you more, even as their characters come up with ever-more elaborate and hilarious ways to make sure your notoriously tactless character is absent during sensitive negotiations.

Do you know anyone in real life who is a "total jerk?" Do you like them? Do you trust them? Do you trust them with your life? ... You can play a character with personal flaws - stubborn, ignorant, sarcastic, or what-have-you - but he has to have redeeming qualities that produce a character whom other people want to keep around.

So, take a look at your character: Is he somebody you would want to keep around? If so, great. If not, why would your party?

I will add my personal experience here: I had a kid in my scout troop who I despised. Total jerk, pranks no one else even thought were funny, lazy, entitled, obnoxious, you name it.

Thing was, for all his awful personality, he was actually really competent, and reliable. He was loyal, too, and in retrospect, given his personality, it makes sense. He found a group that would tolerate him, he didn't want to mess that up, maybe.

Anyway, I used to say of him, "I would trust him with my life. Absolutely, no hesitation. However, I absolutely would not trust him with anything of lesser importance."

So if your character is good at his job, and broadly trustworthy, he probably won't have too much trouble if he's also stubborn, ignorant, sarcastic, and insulting. Especially if your insults are occasionally hilarious.

[Calthropstu]

This is by far the best advice that's been given. It's a really thin line between "my character is being a jerk" and "I as a player am being a jerk," and it's not one you want to step over. Adding to Keltest, you might also vague up some of the jerkish roleplaying-- instead of saying "You short idiot" directly, try "Mikey needles you a bit about your height." It emphasizes the distinction between you and your character, gets the characterization across without so much of the accompanying negative emotions, and by specifying the level of jerk-itude, you make sure you don't accidentally overshoot and upset someone in real life.

Agreed. Jerkiness towards other pcs should be kept to a minimum. Even the most hardcore jerks aren't absolute jerks to their friends. Especially when those friends are literally holding your life in their hands.
But causing incidents with npcs is fair game. The dwarven smith asking your party to go on a mission should be called stumpy. The elf who greets you should recieve "hey, what's up, ears?" The shopkeeper should be called a professional swindler. Just for fun you could pants a local noble's brat.
But the party should be immune to these hijinks. Try to invite them into the fun even. They could be called stick-in-the-muds when they refuse, but don't carry it too far.

As for the other thing, as I said I will not debate it further. It can become quite heated judging from comments and I prefer to let it die.

[Marlowe]

I've been in a game with Bartmanhomer for a year now, with him playing a "Male Drow Rogue who's a jerk", and I must say he has not actually BEEN a jerk yet. His version of reality is simply so different from everyone else that he comes across as an extremely erratic cloudcuckoolander.

[Keltest]

I've been in a game with Bartmanhomer for a year now, with him playing a "Male Drow Rogue who's a jerk", and I must say he has not actually BEEN a jerk yet. His version of reality is simply so different from everyone else that he comes across as an extremely erratic cloudcuckoolander.

I thought this thread sounded familiar.

[Bartmanhomer]

I thought this thread sounded familiar.

Yeah I did made a thread about playing a lesser Drow rogue a jerk thread a while back. And to be really honest my lesser Drow rogue is really a clusmy oaf.