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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Two Playable Subraces & A Race - Plant Genasi, Jaebrin Elf, Dryad - PEACH



MxKit
2018-01-06, 03:01 AM
Thought I'd start posting some of the playable race options I've been working on, get some feedback to make sure they're not significantly under- or over-powered. I have three here that are related to either nature, the Feywild, or both!

Plant Genasi
Ability Score Increase. Your Wisdom or your Charisma score increases by 1 (your choice).
Land's Stride. You can move across difficult terrain made of plantlife of some kind without expending extra movement. You can also pass through nonmagical plants without being slowed by them and without taking damage from them if they have thorns, spines, or a similar hazard.
One With Nature. You know the druidcraft cantrip. Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the entangle spell once with this trait as a 1st-level spell, and you regain the ability to cast it this way when you finish a long rest. Constitution is your spellcasting ability for these spells.

Jaebrin Elf
Ability Score Increase. Your Charisma score increases by 1.
Trickster's Heart. You have proficiency in either the Deception, Performance, or Persuasion skill.
Feign Enchantment. You can absorb the energy of enchantment effects used on you, even if they fail. Whenever you succeed on a saving throw against being charmed, you know its intended effect. You can then pretend to be affected, fooling even detect magic and similar effects, as the absorbed energy is displayed in your aura for the duration of the effect or until you choose to dismiss it. Someone can discern that you are not actually enchanted if they succeed on an Wisdom (Insight) check versus your Charisma (Deception) check.
Will-Sapping Bite. Your teeth are natural weapons, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with them, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d4 + your Strength modifier, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for an unarmed strike. Any creature damaged by your bite must then succeed on a Constitution saving throw or have disadvantage on any saving throws against being charmed until the end of your next turn in combat. The DC is 10 + your Charisma modifier.

Dryad
Ability Score increase. Your Charisma score increases by 2, and your Wisdom score increases by 1.
Darkvision. Thanks to your fey blood, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
One With Nature. You have proficiency in the Stealth skill.
Speak With Plants. You can communicate with plants as if you share a common language.
Fey Ancestry. You have advantage on saving throws against being charmed.
Nature's Legacy. You know the druidcraft cantrip. When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the entangle spell once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. When you reach 5th level, you can cast the barkskin spell once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common, Elvish, and Sylvan.


DRYAD VARIANT
Nature's Shelter. You know the druidcraft cantrip. When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the goodberry spell once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. When you reach 5th level, you can cast the pass without trace spell once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for these spells. This trait replaces the Nature's Legacy trait.

Ninja_Prawn
2018-01-06, 05:10 AM
Plant Genasi

Looks fine. It's probably slightly weaker than the fire genasi.


Jaebrin Elf

I like that one a lot.


Dryad

The balance is fine, but it feels odd that "one with nature" gives you proficiency in Stealth. Shouldn't it be Nature?

MxKit
2018-01-06, 06:14 PM
Looks fine. It's probably slightly weaker than the fire genasi.

Ha, so long as it's not too much weaker than the other ones, I'll take it! I think fire genasi tends to be the best of the four, generally speaking.


I like that one a lot.

Thanks! I'm especially glad about that one, Jaebrin were one of my favorite races in 3.5 and I miss them. :smallbiggrin:


The balance is fine, but it feels odd that "one with nature" gives you proficiency in Stealth. Shouldn't it be Nature?

...You know, you're probably right about that one. I was mostly just looking at the Dryad's stat block and saw the Perception +4, Stealth +5 for its skills, and was kind of going with a "blends in (especially with nature)" idea. Would changing it to proficiency in Nature and advantage to Stealth checks to hide in natural outdoors environments make sense, or would that be pushing it, power-wise?

Requilac
2018-01-07, 10:21 AM
Plant Genasi
Ability Score Increase. Your Wisdom or your Charisma score increases by 1 (your choice).
Land's Stride. You can move across difficult terrain made of plantlife of some kind without expending extra movement. You can also pass through nonmagical plants without being slowed by them and without taking damage from them if they have thorns, spines, or a similar hazard.
One With Nature. You know the druidcraft cantrip. Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the entangle spell once with this trait as a 1st-level spell, and you regain the ability to cast it this way when you finish a long rest. Constitution is your spellcasting ability for these spells.

This one is a little underpowered when compared to the rest for the genasi, but not too an extent I would worry too much about. I would give them something else to increase their power by a little though. Perhaps they gain something like the dwarf’s stone cunning feature?

Whenever you make an Intelligence (nature) check related to lore on plants, you are considered proficient in the History skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check, instead of your normal proficiency bonus.



Jaebrin Elf
Ability Score Increase. Your Charisma score increases by 1.
Trickster's Heart. You have proficiency in either the Deception, Performance, or Persuasion skill.
Feign Enchantment. You can absorb the energy of enchantment effects used on you, even if they fail. Whenever you succeed on a saving throw against being charmed, you know its intended effect. You can then pretend to be affected, fooling even detect magic and similar effects, as the absorbed energy is displayed in your aura for the duration of the effect or until you choose to dismiss it. Someone can discern that you are not actually enchanted if they succeed on an Wisdom (Insight) check versus your Charisma (Deception) check.
Will-Sapping Bite. Your teeth are natural weapons, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with them, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d4 + your Strength modifier, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for an unarmed strike. Any creature damaged by your bite must then succeed on a Constitution saving throw or have disadvantage on any saving throws against being charmed until the end of your next turn in combat. The DC is 10 + your Charisma modifier.

This sub-race seems pretty reasonable, but it is a little niche. You could probably perform something similar to feign enchantment without the feature if you were a good enoguh actor, but this feature makes it a lot easier to do, so over-all fine. Will-sapping bite is pretty fair to me too, but I can’t imagine it getting much use really. I suppose it is good in the right sort of campaign, but it seems really specific to me, which might have been what you are going for



Dryad
Ability Score increase. Your Charisma score increases by 2, and your Wisdom score increases by 1.
Darkvision. Thanks to your fey blood, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
One With Nature. You have proficiency in the Stealth skill.
Speak With Plants. You can communicate with plants as if you share a common language.
Fey Ancestry. You have advantage on saving throws against being charmed.
Nature's Legacy. You know the druidcraft cantrip. When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the entangle spell once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. When you reach 5th level, you can cast the barkskin spell once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common, Elvish, and Sylvan.

This race is definitely overpowered. Having a spell-casting trait is nothing to balk at and I think you overestimated how important it would be. I would scrap one with nature if I were you. The only reason I am not suggesting you remove dark-vision too is because I can’t imagine a dryad holding a torch. And part of me found it kind of strange that the dryad gained no charm spells or features either. I understand you were taking the spells from the monster’s spell list, but I regardless think you should replace entangle with charm person.

Ninja_Prawn
2018-01-07, 10:56 AM
This race is definitely overpowered. Having a spell-casting trait is nothing to balk at and I think you overestimated how important it would be.

Really? 1/3/5 casting is a pretty standard feature, and this dryad doesn't have much else.

Musicus points:


3 ASI
0.5 Darkvision
0.5 Skill
1* Speak with Plants
0.5 Fey Ancestry
1.5 1/3/5 Casting
0.25 Extra Language

Total: 7.25
*Speak with Plants may be an always-on 3rd level spell, but it's a very weak and situational one so I think 1 is a fair rating. That said, I did cut it from my dryad due to balance concerns.

The target range is generally 5.5 to 7, so it's over that, but PHB elves and dwarves come in around 7.5, so... I wouldn't say "definitely overpowered".

Requilac
2018-01-07, 12:10 PM
Really? 1/3/5 casting is a pretty standard feature, and this dryad doesn't have much else.

Musicus points:


3 ASI
0.5 Darkvision
0.5 Skill
1* Speak with Plants
0.5 Fey Ancestry
1.5 1/3/5 Casting
0.25 Extra Language

Total: 7.25
*Speak with Plants may be an always-on 3rd level spell, but it's a very weak and situational one so I think 1 is a fair rating. That said, I did cut it from my dryad due to balance concerns.

The target range is generally 5.5 to 7, so it's over that, but PHB elves and dwarves come in around 7.5, so... I wouldn't say "definitely overpowered".

The musicus score is very well renown for being highly inaccurate. In this case it makes very little sense. For one, darkvision is much too powerful to be considered .5 trait, at least in my experience. Not all skills deserve the same rating, and stealth is definitely worth more than a simple .5 and should not be anywhere close to equivalent in power to fey ancestry, as they both have .5 as a score despite one being much more useful than the other. Speak with plants is certainly not weak or situational, unless you are in some different plane of existence than there will be plants everywhere that can tell you some very groundbreaking information, up to the point of becoming superior to a familiar or scout even. Fey ancestry is given a really strange rating, especially considering that it is in the same rating as resilience. Fey ancestry grants advantage against one uncommon condition, whilst resilience grants advantage against a common condition type and common damage type, but they still somehow got the same rating.

And if you put your faith in the musicus score, than that makes normal humans better than variant humans, halflings , gnomes half-orcs and tieflings. I really would not trust musicus score unless you were trying to create a general guideline, as it has too many faults to be successfully relied on. In this case the musicus score is very sketchy at best.

Ninja_Prawn
2018-01-07, 01:12 PM
The musicus score is very well renown for being highly inaccurate.

I've never heard anyone say that. It's fine for a ballpark approximation, enough to say that this race is in the right sort of zone.


For one, darkvision is much too powerful to be considered .5 trait

Nonsense. Darkvision is so common that most DMs I've played with don't even consider using lack of light as an obstacle.


Not all skills deserve the same rating, and stealth is definitely worth more

True, but most racial proficiencies are more or less interchangeable, given the way backgrounds work. Perception and Stealth are the only ones I'd consider weighting differently, and I've already suggested changing Stealth to Nature for this race.


Speak with plants is certainly not weak or situational

I disagree. Non-sentient plants aren't going to know or understand much at all in most cases. Most of the power of the spell comes from the fact it imbues plants with sentience and offers the ability to influence them (and specifically counteract plant growth & entangle). The dryad's ability does none of those things.


Fey ancestry is given a really strange rating

Yes, that's the limitation of the system's granularity. Most of the time, the differences cancel out. Maybe Fey Ancestry is more of a .25, but from where I'm looking, that just makes my argument stronger.

Requilac
2018-01-07, 02:01 PM
I've never heard anyone say that. It's fine for a ballpark approximation, enough to say that this race is in the right sort of zone.

Saying that it is a ballpark approximation is quite the stretch, especially since musicus' review of the PHB does not even hold true with popular opinion of all the races. According to the musicus score, dwarves are overpowered (which almost everyone would disagree with), halflings are one of the weakest races (they are not that powerful, but saying they are that weak is not accurate in most viewpoints), normal humans are better than five of the races (which i am pretty sure everyone is going to disagree with that), variant humans are considered to be the weakest of all races regardless of the feat they take (on the contrary, most are going to say that vumans are the most powerful race), dragonborn are somehow just a little underpowered (when most people think that they are not even half as strong as some of the weakest races), gnomes are perfectly balanced (while popular opinion holds that they are one of the most powerful of all races), and tieflings are the 3rd weakest race (while most are going to say they are perfectly in the middle).

the review for the Elf and half-elf, and half-orc is pretty accurate, but aside from that everything is out of whack. You are actually the first person I have met who claimed to like the system, and I have been discussing D&D (though not necessarily playing) for three years now. I guess your experience is just different.



Nonsense. Darkvision is so common that most DMs I've played with don't even consider using lack of light as an obstacle.

Quite strange that you say that, I guess your experience is different from mine. From what I have experienced so far is that lack of light is a massive obstacle. Without dark-vision investigations become much more difficult during the night, you are likely to get ambushed and you have to carry a torch around which paints a target on your back from anything you would rather avoid. That and it basically screws you over in the stealth department. The only games I have played a group where all of the players do not have racial darkvision or some way around it are the ones I DM, because those without darkvision are so heavily debilitated.



True, but most racial proficiencies are more or less interchangeable, given the way backgrounds work. Perception and Stealth are the only ones I'd consider weighting differently, and I've already suggested changing Stealth to Nature for this race.

I would not say that, it seems like some skills are considered much more valuable than others. Typically I am used to seeing people rate skills in a spectrum from good (athletics, acrobatics, stealth, investigation, perception, deception persuasion) to okay (arcana, history, religion, insight, survival, intimidation) to bad (sleight of hand, nature, animal handling, medicine, performance). I would assume that most people would consider some skills more useful than others. I guess it changes from table to table though.



I disagree. Non-sentient plants aren't going to know or understand much at all in most cases. Most of the power of the spell comes from the fact it imbues plants with sentience and offers the ability to influence them (and specifically counteract plant growth & entangle). The dryad's ability does none of those things.

Of course this feature bestows upon the plants some semblance of sentience, or else the feature would never work. Plants can't communicate at all, so a feature that allows you to talk to plants without granting them sort of intelligence literally does not do anything. Unless the OP specifically designed the feature to be there and look pretty without being able to functionally do anything, then I am certain it makes the plants you are talking to intelligent.



Yes, that's the limitation of the system's granularity. Most of the time, the differences cancel out. Maybe Fey Ancestry is more of a .25, but from where I'm looking, that just makes my argument stronger.

Fair enough, I suppose.



It seems like we have had massively different experiences so that is what is causing us to disagree. That is part of why I do not like the musicus score, it is only accurate for a small selection of tables and way off for all the others. What they should have done is make a rating that changes depending on the genre. Like a feature is worth X amount of points if you focus on combat, but if you focus on social interaction it instead is worth X amount of points. But instead it seems based off of what Musicus himself was used to, which does not really resemble the majority opinion on most subjects. If a scoring system is innacurate for about half the tables it is applied to, then that sends a strong message that it is not a good way to score something. Agree to disagree I suppose, but I am not putting my faith into the Musicus score, although I am not going to force you to conform to that belief. I guess it works for you, but it fails once it is applied to any of the games I have played in.

JNAProductions
2018-01-07, 03:01 PM
They seem fine to me. I'll echo what NP said, since they're a smart cookie, but if a player came up to me and said "I want to play this subrace/race" and showed me one of these, I'd probably say yes.