Assuming you had to be a batman sorcerer...

[Sam K]

This is inspired by Troacctids thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?546315-You-just-gained-a-level-in-real-life!-What-class-would-you-take), where I picked sorcerer simply because I'm better at getting other people to do stupid **** (cha) than doing smart stuff myself (int). But that got me thinking:

Assuming you have to be a sorcerer (it's the only arcane caster your DM will allow), what spells/feats/acf's would you consider essential for being a "batman" sorcerer. Assume that PRCs and magic items will NOT be available at your beck and call either. So we can't assume scroll of X will be available whenever we need it, or that every order membership that's required for a certain PRC is recruiting at the moment.

And yeah, wizard is better, we all know that. That's beside the point: the challenge is to make the picks that makes for the most batman-y SORCERER :)

[Necroticplague]

Standard ‘horrifically broken open-ended spells’ would probably do well for you. These are, frankly, good picks for directors anyway, as they offer more than one spells worth of utility out of a single spell known. Planar Binding, Shadow X, Alter self and it’s upgrades, are some of the easiest examples coming to mind.

[KillianHawkeye]

It's going to be a lot harder to "be Batman" if you're a sorcerer.

The whole point of comparing a wizard to Batman is because Batman's super-power is preparedness. His utility belt always has exactly what he needs in any situation because he thought about every situation beforehand and prepared for it.

Batman is not spontaneous. He doesn't improvise his way out of situations.

While it's true that there are some spells that can be used in multiple ways and those are great picks for a sorcerer who has a limited number of known spells, that doesn't change the fact that a sorcerer needs to think and be creative about how they can use their particular kit of tools to solve their problems rather than going out and getting the exact right tool for whatever problems they expect to face.

It's like the old saying, "If all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail."

A sorcerer shouldn't try to be Batman when they're actually MacGyver. :smallwink:

[Nifft]

Shadowcraft Gnome may be a viable strategy for a highly flexible Sorcerer.

You could alternately play in Eberron, and go with Wand Surge plus either Persistent unfettered heroism or Primal Scholar 5 (so you infinitely re-cast unfettered heroism).

[Vizzerdrix]

Heighten spell. Invisable spell. Fell drain. Sculpt spell. Versatile spellcaster. The acf that trades familiar for better metamagic use.

Your spell list is your swiss army knife. Metamagic turns each spell into a mini swiss army knife. Their is a pic of this someplace on the internet. Im too lazy to go find it but you get the idea.

Spells are tricky. Id go with a damage spell. A spell that targets each save in a sol or sos manner. A bfc spell. General utility. Look for spells that do a little something extra. Magic missile is low damage, but it auto hits almost everything and is a rarely resisted damage type. Good for adding fell drain to.

[Eldariel]

For which level? The spell selection always depends on your other spells so every level from 1 to 20 is different. Note that by the time you get Limited Wish, you can replicate Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) (under the clause of "Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects" replicating a 5th level power rather than 5th level spell - should be trivially allowed as spells and powers have the same power scaling and Sorc has no prohibited schools) to remake your spell list at will, which is extremely powerful in spite of the XP cost. Otherwise, you're of course stuck trading spells for one another the old-fashioned way, which can leave you with some suboptimal options as you level up and outgrow certain effects.

Trying to answer the question generally. ACFs...Metamagic Specialist and Dragonblood Sorcerer are interesting. Dragonblood Sorcerer gives UMD in class and the spell-like benefits from the 4th level sub are quite interesting far as avoiding components goes. Draconic Heritage is worse than familiar but for PRCing you might want it anyways. And the bonus spells known are useful if not optimal; you don't mind any of the options listed but it's more or less a wash. Metamagic Specialist...you'll pick up Rapid Metamagic eventually, which makes this obsolete, but before then this is quite nice and metamagic is a key part of making anything out of the Sorcerer. Dwarf Sorcerer ACFs are great but Dwarf Sorcerers aren't all that so let's ignore those for a moment.


Now, spells. You want one of each stat save-or-lose. Glitterdust, Web/Grease and Stinking Cloud/Wall of Smoke/Cloud of Bewilderment are good options. They are versatile, mostly affect spell immune enemies and take low level slots. Combine these with Heighten Spell (notice, you need metamagic reduction) to great effect.

Thus, feats:
1. Heighten Spell
X. Quicken Spell
9. Rapid Metamagic

Other feats are less obvious (well, if it's allowed, Assume Supernatural Ability is superobvious thanks to Sorc's Charisma and easy access to Polymorph, but I wouldn't assume that), but metamagic is good on Sorcs (Empower Spell is immediately interesting for False Life/Enervation/Wings of Flurry/etc., Split Ray [Enervation & al.] and Chain Spell [Greater Dispel Magic] as well) and obviously Improved Familiar is great. Feats that add spells such as Arcane Disciple are also particularly strong on the Sorcerer chassis. You want PRC as early as possible but those are stated to not be available. You're going Batman so you need to pick unique effects and maximize your versatility. You also have access to the Sorcerer specific spells so make great use of:
2. Wings of Cover
4. Wings of Flurry
5. Arcane Fusion
8. Greater Arcane Fusion

All of them are superb spells, with Wings of Flurry being the worst of the pack but still a double threat uncapped AOE force damage + save-or-daze. The downside is, you need to be in the middle of enemies by default and we aren't doing Arcane Archer, Spellwarp Sniper or any such here.

It's worth noting that Shapechange makes most spells short of action economy nonsense superfluous as the Shapechange forms can replicate almost anything as a Su ability (for more details, see Shapechange Handbook (https://docs.google.com/document/d/127el4KqlL2ALu1chZ9WLPGFOu1InVTJ2pmxAmYAARbE/edit?ts=59f7dabb#)). However, it comes late and is a spell that's very much so a candidate for heavy nerfing as it's still superb even without the "gain all Su-abilities" clause. Thus for a high level list, much depends on how much you're allowed to do with Shapechange.

This is a recurring theme; Polymorph, Planar Binding, Polymorph Any Object, etc. replicate any number of other spells so if you can use those effects, you can save slots by just picking them and freeing up your slots that would normally cater to that effect. Thus your spell selection should minimize the overlap but the amount of overlap depends on the spells allowed and what they're allowed to do (unlike a Wizard, a Sorc can't just trivially ace all Knowledge-checks to know of all creatures in the game).

Necessary capabilities:
Flight: Alter Self/Polymorph-line, Fly, Phantom Steed, Shadow Conjuration (Phantom Steed), Overland Flight
Tactical Teleportation: Benign Transposition, Baleful Transposition, Dimension Door, etc.
Other spatial: Greater Blink, Ghostform (though short duration and a long action to cast)
Strategic Movement: Teleport (duh), Greater Teleport, Plane Shift, Greater Plane Shift
Action Economy: Battlemagic Perception, Celerity, Contingency, Arcane Spellsurge, Time Stop
Terrain reforming: Transmute X to X, Move Earth, Disintegrate, Polymorph Any Object
Divination: Arcane Sight, (Greater) Scry, Contact Other Plane, etc.
Staple defenses: Magic Circle against Alignment, Heart of X (especially Water), Anticipate Teleport, Mind Blank, Foresight, Astral Projection

Then you just weave in party buffs (Greater Mighty Wallop, Polymorph/Polymorph Any Object, Greater Magic Weapon, Greater Mage Armor, Greater Invisibility, etc.) and of course, combat spells, particularly ones that do something unusual (Telekinesis, Black Tentacles, Enervation, Wall of Force, some stat damage spells). A lot of painful cuts have to be made. Particularly the level 3-5 slots are incredibly full of options where ideally you'd want everything. Obviously you need Greater Dispel Magic or variant and Disjunction.

Some overall answer like Summon Monster VIII to spam spell-likes where you lack the spell or want to outsource something (e.g. 1d4+1 healing Bralani Eladrins or Heal and Raise Dead from Hollyphant or Wall of Ice spam from 1d3 Bone Devils or such) is a good way to finish out a spell list. But the answer would depend on the rest of the party, which things you can successfully outsource, and what exactly is allowed and not allowed.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Make the limited number of spells known completely irrelevant, there are two easy ways to do this with feats:

A. Take Magical Training (PGtF) at 1st for a spellbook which you've already added some 0-level spells to, and spell slots to prepare those in. Per the Rules Compendium you're able to learn more spells and add them to your spellbook via the same methods a Wizard uses. Take Versatile Spellcaster (RotD), which allows you to spend two spontaneous spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher. This method potentially gets access to more spells, but you're reliant on being able to find those spells in the setting. Plus your DM may require you to have the spellbook open to the one you're casting and read it off the page as you cast it, making this useless in combat.

B. Take Ancestral Relic (BoED) at 3rd level, make it a custom Runestaff (MIC p224). As an Ancestral Relic you can freely determine which magical abilities it has, up to the level-based gp limit and how much you've invested, so long as those abilities can be added to an item of this type (staff). You can freely replace existing abilities every time you modify it, as long as the end result doesn't exceed that limit. Later on you can also add charges for spells it contains like a magical staff, in addition to making it a runestaff.