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TacticsObserver
2018-01-07, 01:07 AM
Hello I'm trying to make a Mage Slayer class except I'm having difficulty trying to balance this class. please take note that i'm pretty inexperienced with the game so go easy on me

Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+0|+2|+2|Detect Magic, Weapon Bond +1, Exotic weapon proficiency,
2nd|+2|+0|+3|+3|Evasion,
3rd|+3|+1|+3|+3|Dispelling Strike 1/day, Aura of Anti-magic
4th|+4|+1|+4|+4|Bonus feat, Anti-mage tactic
5th|+5|+1|+4|+4|Magic Resistance, Weapon Bond +2,
6th|+6|+1|+2|+5|+5|Dispel Magic 1/day, Aura Of Anti-Magic
7th|+7/+2|+2|+5|+5|Dispelling Strike2/day
8th|+8/+3|+2|+6|+6|Bonus feat, Anti-Mage tactic
9th|+9/+4|+3|+6|+6|Improved Evasion,
10th|+10/+5|+3|+7|+7|Magic Resistance, Dispel Magic 2/day, Weapon Bond +3
11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+7|+7|Dispelling Strike3/day,
12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+8|+8|Bonus feat, Anti-mage Tactic
13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+8|+8|Aura of Anti-magic, Greater dispelling
14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+9|+9|Dispel Magic3/day.
15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+9|+9|Magic Resistance, Dispelling Strike 4/day, Weapon Bond +4
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+10|+10|Bonus feat, Anti-mage tactic
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+10|Aura of Anti-magic
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|+11|Dispel Magic 3/day
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|+11|Dispelling Strike 5/day
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+12|+12|Magic Immunity, Bonus feat, Weapon Bond +5, Anti-mage Tactic

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d10


Class Skills:The Anti-Mage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance(Dex), Bluff(Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate(Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft(Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) × 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Proficiencies: Anti-Mages are proficient with simple weapons and the Longsword and at 5th level one Exotic Weapon. They are proficient in light armor but not sheilds

Policy Against Magic: Anti-mages cannot multi-class into spellcasting classes. And can’t cast any spells or otherwise you lose all levels in anti-mage. You can’t use most magic items. you can use potions and oils and stat boosting equipment but no other magic equipment.
You may have a +1 magic weapon with any or all of the following enchantments: Dispelling, Greater Dispelling, Magebane

If you gain levels in occult slayer than it’s levels stack with Anti-mage levels for the purpose of determining the amount of times you can use dispelling strike and your bonuses from weapon bond

Detect magic:A Anti-mage may use Detect magic at will.

Weapon Bond:A Anti-Mage Chooses one weapon to form a bond with giving it +1 to Attack and Damage. It takes 1 day to bond with the weapon and in your next battle you may bond with the weapon this improves by 1 every five levels

Evasion: At second level an Anti-mage gains Evasion then At 9th level An Anti-Mage gets Improved Evasion

Dispelling Strike: A Anti-mage may attempt to use Dispelling Strike with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per Anti-mage level.
When Anti mage reaches 11 lvl if the Creature is casting a spell or has a spell effect on it then it is dispelled/removed and the Anti-mage deals +2 damage per level of the spell dispelled/removed. This can only be used on Spellcasters, Fey, Magical Beasts and Constructs. If Dispelling strike is used on anything non-magical Dispelling strike does nothing and the damage is rolled normally.
You may treat this as Smite for the purposes of feats

Aura Of Anti-magic: An Anti-mage gains SR equal to 2 + her Anti-mage level. This takes effect against every spell cast on him, even freindly ones. At 6th level the base bonus goes from 2 to 5 and at 13th level 5 to 8, finally at 17th level it goes to 12 also you can grant one person within 15ft of you SR 5

Bonus Feats: Bonus Feats: At 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level), a Anti-mage gains a bonus feat, which must be selected from the following list: Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection, Pierce Magical Concealment, Blind fight, Chosen Foe, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Endurance, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility,Skill Focus, Spring Attack. She must meet all the prerequisites for the feat.

Magic Immunity: at 5th an Anti-mage may add her Charisma bonus on Saving Throws against spells, at tenth level she may Add her Charisma Modifier to her SR and AC against spells. At fifteenth level A Anti-mage may reroll failed saves against spells. finally at 20th level any spellcaster she deals damage to get a penalty equal to your charisma modifier to RTT rolls and CL on spells casted on the Anti-mage.

Dispell Magic: An Anti-Mage may use Dispell Magic as a Supernatural Ability caster level is equal to her class levels in Anti-mage,
Greater Dispelling: At 13th level the Anti-mages Dispell-Magic Ability is Treated as Greater Dispell magic


Anti-Mage Tactics: At certain levels an Anti-mage may learn Tactics which may help him defeat magicians you may choose any tactic


Entropic Defense: based on the filthy spell, Entropic defense allows you to give a 30% miss chance to Ranged magic attacks when Fighting Defensively, using Combat Expertise or in Full On Defense.

Dazing Strike:with a heavy swing of your weapon you may Daze opponents, half of your Dispelling Strikes also have a dazing effect(rounded down min 1) therefore a 7th level Anti-mage has 2 dispelling strikes and may choose if 1 is dazing or not. You must decide it’s a dazing strike right after you say it’s dispelling

Quickend Dispell: You may use Dispell Magic as an Immediate action

Deflecting Defense:when the Anti-mage is Fighting Defensively or All-Out Defense an Antimage can cause a spell or spell-like ability targeted against her to rebound onto the originator as a Immediate action. This ability otherwise functions as the spell turning spell (caster level equals the character's Anti-mage level). In order to get this tactic you must have Deeper Connection and Entropic Defense

Painful Wound: if you successfully hit a caster with any attack; The mage will have trouble casting spells afterwards the caster must roll a concentration check equal to 8 + the damage dealt

Deeper Connection: you become so connected to your weapon that you gain extra bonuses to it. You gain Weapon Specialization on the exotic weapon you are proficient in even if you don’t meet the requirements. In order to get this you need atleast Weapon Bond +2

Anti-Magic Casting: You train your powers in Anti-magic to use actual anti-magic spells you can use Distract, Disguise Self, True Strike, a cumulitive amount of Times per day of 3 + Your Charisma modifier. In order to gain this tactic you must have Quickend Dispell

TheIronGolem
2018-01-07, 01:31 AM
This class is not allowed to use magic, in exchange for class features that are far less useful than magic. That makes it bad at its main job (fighting people who use magic), and also bad at all the other parts of adventuring.

EDIT: I missed the part of your post where you said you're pretty new at D&D. That makes the naivete of your class design much more understandable. So what you should go ahead and learn now is that the way this game is designed, non-magic classes are at a huge disadvantage compared to magic-using classes, especially once you get past level 7-8 or so. This won't fundamentally change just because a class gets a handful of "mage killer" abilities. Spells and magic items (but especially spells) are just too powerful and versatile.

TacticsObserver
2018-01-07, 02:07 AM
This class is not allowed to use magic, in exchange for class features that are far less useful than magic. That makes it bad at its main job (fighting people who use magic), and also bad at all the other parts of adventuring.

EDIT: I missed the part of your post where you said you're pretty new at D&D. That makes the naivete of your class design much more understandable. So what you should go ahead and learn now is that the way this game is designed, non-magic classes are at a huge disadvantage compared to magic-using classes, especially once you get past level 7-8 or so. This won't fundamentally change just because a class gets a handful of "mage killer" abilities. Spells and magic items (but especially spells) are just too powerful and versatile.

In Which case should i give the Anti-mage access to abjuration spells?

Florian
2018-01-07, 03:35 AM
In Which case should i give the Anti-mage access to abjuration spells?

Pathfinder has some successful "Anti Magic" Barbarian and Fighter builds. Grab some guides, look at how they work and try reworking your class based on that (a Viking can combine aspects of both).

Fighters use Disruptive/Spellbreaker to negate defensive casting and impose a penalty to concentration checks, Ray Shield to auto-cancel one ranged touch spell per round and Smash From The Air to use AoO attempts against non-touch spells.

Barbarians use Superstition for a massive scaling bonus to saves, Eater Of Magic to convert saved-against spells into healing (that also handles all kinds of partial save spells) and Spell Sunder/Sundering Cleave to directly target and attack defensive spells and take them down.

Eldariel
2018-01-07, 07:38 AM
Pathfinder has some successful "Anti Magic" Barbarian and Fighter builds. Grab some guides, look at how they work and try reworking your class based on that (a Viking can combine aspects of both).

I dunno about "successful"; they still have nary a chance to actually reach a caster who doesn't want to be reached outside very cramped quarters (and even there, casters generally have options like Earth Glide/Burrow/terrain reforming) and caster underlings still generally overpower non-casters of equivalent level martially. Casters can still teleport and fly much faster than any non-caster; for any of the feats or class features to do anything, you need to get next to the caster to start with (and of course, they can just Dispel your source of flight while flying themselves). But much like Pierce Magical Concealment and Pierce Magical Protection, they can negate a modicum of a caster's defensive spells and there's the feat line to follow up on teleports forcing caster to put a bit more work into creating distance if the warrior does reach an adjacent square. Neither line is all that "successful" though but rather a barebones minimum prerequisite to even be able to interact with a caster's toys.

King of Nowhere
2018-01-07, 09:24 AM
giving up on magic items requires much greater benefits than the ones you give to be worth the effort. Unless you can couple it with a vow of poverty, then you get twice as many benefits for free and it doesn't make much sense. Anyway, skewed interactions aside, I like the concept, but it needs a lot more goodies. Most "anti mage" builds, especially those made by beginners, fail by getting a lot of tool to strike a wizard, while not considering how to even approach said wizard. that's the most important part. So let's see the things you have to cover

- fly. Any spellcaster with a bit of preparation will use fly or air walk, you need your own equivalent to be able to touch them. normal fighters have items for this, if you deny the class the use of magic items and buff spells you must give them a flying capability

- see invisibility. It's very easy to get invisible. If you don't want your mage slayer to stand around looking dumb while an invisible wizard shoots him, you need to give the guy a way to see invisibility. It may even be related to the spot skill, if you want to give it a mundane feel.

- self teleportation. There is a 7th level spell called forcecage, which puts you in a cage. No saving throw, and the cage can only be destroyed by a handful of spells - and dispell magic is NOT one of them. If you don't want to be rendered completely powerless by that, you need a way to teleport out. Same goes for all the "wall of ______" spells. Either you teleport, or you gain a way to dissolve them.

- grapple. The Black tentacles spell grapples with you at 8+caster level bonus, which your character generally won't have. There are also many huge monsters that can be summoned to grapple you. You need a better grapple, or a freedom of movement effect.

- evade summoned monsters. A summoner can summon a bunch of monsters in your way. Sure, they may be weak compared to you, but as soon as you put one down two more will sprout up. I've seen iron golems neutralized by having a huge earth elemental grapple them. You need some way to go past those monsters and reach the caster. the tumble skill is a possible solution.

- enemy teleportation. A caster can teleport a lot of times. Consider adding some anti-teleport skill, like casting dimensional anchor or suppressing all teleportation in a radius around you (which would, however, screw up the rest of the party)

- saving throws. Against a passably optimized spellcaster, a high base saving throw progression is not a guarantee of success. It is but one of the many bonuses you need to pile up to stand a credible chance of making it. There are save-buffing items, but you are forbidding this guy from using them... It is not too difficult to buff your casting stat to around +12, forcing saving throws with DC over 30. If all you have is a +12, and maybe a +2 from the relevant stat and a +3 from charisma, you still need to roll over 15 to succeed. And that's every round, because most high level spells are save or lose. which brings us to the next point,

- multiple attribute dependancy. This guy swings a sword in melee, so he needs lots of STR to deal damage. He is forbidden heavy armors, so he need some DEX if he doesn't want to have a bullseye painted on his back. He needs some CON because everyone needs it, and he also needs CHA for his special abilities. It's very rare for someone to have all the high rolls needed to play this character, while if you use point buy you will be stuck with mediocre stats all around.

- good stuff coming too late. Before level 11, your class does basically nothing. Sure, spell resistance 12+CHA+level is actually pretty good (even a bit too high, maybe, since you can buff your CHA pretty well), but you only get that at level 17. Before that you have 5+level+CHA, which pretty much sucks. Same goes for dispelling magic and dispelling strike.

Some things are written in an unclear way and you need to clarify:

- at 5th level you gain "magic resistance", which however is not explained later. what does it do?
- greater dispelling strike at level 11 dispels a buff spell on the wizard and deals extra damage. Does it work for every single buff spell, or is it limited to 1 spell dissolved per strike? I suggest the second option, because the first would result in insta-killing, and that would be too much.

Aside from that, I like the focus the class gets on dispelling magic. that's certainly good.

Florian
2018-01-07, 11:08 AM
I dunno about "successful"; they still have nary a chance to actually reach a caster who doesn't want to be reached outside very cramped quarters (and even there, casters generally have options like Earth Glide/Burrow/terrain reforming) and caster underlings still generally overpower non-casters of equivalent level martially. Casters can still teleport and fly much faster than any non-caster; for any of the feats or class features to do anything, you need to get next to the caster to start with (and of course, they can just Dispel your source of flight while flying themselves). But much like Pierce Magical Concealment and Pierce Magical Protection, they can negate a modicum of a caster's defensive spells and there's the feat line to follow up on teleports forcing caster to put a bit more work into creating distance if the warrior does reach an adjacent square. Neither line is all that "successful" though but rather a barebones minimum prerequisite to even be able to interact with a caster's toys.

I don't really care about theoretical high-op stuff or anything that's outside of regular play (read: any scenario, module or campaign since the dawn of D&D).

That said, stuff like Shadow Pounce, Dimensional Assault and Dimensional Step-Up are more closely tied to race/template than base class you use it on and it doesn't look like this class should only work with Telflammer Shadow Lords or Fetchlings.

Beyond Dimensional Assault, preferable while mounted and using a lance, grab a good longbow, dragoon gun or laser rifle (or, ironically, a Mage´s Crossbow), grab Overwatch Style and let fly.

Eldariel
2018-01-07, 12:06 PM
I don't really care about theoretical high-op stuff or anything that's outside of regular play (read: any scenario, module or campaign since the dawn of D&D).

Luckily basic Contingency: Teleport/DD tied to saying something (free action out of turn) is certainly easily a part of regular play, as is Phantom Steed & co. Both are quite usable in Pathfinder Society even, though those scenarios are generally easy enough that there's no need. In any kind of open air encounters, those are more than enough and I posit there's no reason for any caster over level 11/12 not to have such defenses active.

Florian
2018-01-07, 02:09 PM
I posit there's no reason for any caster over level 11/12 not to have such defenses active.

The reason you don't really see this stuff in any regular published material is that is breaks the game.
Your "reason" is based on a Combat as War sentiment, while the system as a whole is geared towards supporting Combat as Sport, which uses an entirely different "logic" to function.

Sadly, the "Playground" seems to have a hard time understanding the difference here, that the RAW does not dictate the game and pretty much half the PHB can only be used sparingly to keep the inherent balance intact.

Eldariel
2018-01-07, 02:26 PM
The reason you don't really see this stuff in any regular published material is that is breaks the game.
Your "reason" is based on a Combat as War sentiment, while the system as a whole is geared towards supporting Combat as Sport, which uses an entirely different "logic" to function.

Sadly, the "Playground" seems to have a hard time understanding the difference here, that the RAW does not dictate the game and pretty much half the PHB can only be used sparingly to keep the inherent balance intact.

The system as a whole is geared towards neither, it's all about what the group makes of it. Either works just fine though trying to keep an artificial balance is tantamount to banning half the PHB while allowing everything pretty much means either everybody or nobody should be playing spellcasters, or the game should take place on very low levels where the difference is less pronounced. However, this often gets mixed up with people touting their own preference as the gospel and making sweeping claims that have a dozen tacit assumptions that the writer just assumes everybody accepts and agrees with unconditionally, because otherwise their statement holds no water. Then people argue over the minutiae instead of just uncovering the tacit assumptions and actually getting to the meat of the matter. Statements like "successful mage slayer" depend entirely on if you're playing against half PHB or full PHB casters but barring a statement to the contrary, I don't see why the assumption should be anything other than "full PHB". Tacit restrictions are inherently untenable, since they're arbitrary and what's acceptable for another person is unthinkable for another, so the only way for discussions to work is to assume only stated restrictions. You're doing the opposite which makes discussion quite difficult since there's no way to know where you're drawing the line and where the other participant is drawing the line and thus whether there's actually common ground for the discussion.

creakyaccordion
2018-01-07, 03:42 PM
I know you are into making your own class but you should take a look at Occult Slayer from Complete Warrior, it's a prestige class that does everything you're looking for.

King of Nowhere
2018-01-07, 04:31 PM
I know you are into making your own class but you should take a look at Occult Slayer from Complete Warrior, it's a prestige class that does everything you're looking for.

it doesn't, not really, because it completely sidesteps the matter of getting close to the caster in the first place

Vhaidara
2018-01-07, 06:03 PM
If you gain levels in occult slayer than it’s levels stack with Anti-mage levels for the purpose of determining the amount of times you can use dispelling strike and your bonuses from weapon bond


I know you are into making your own class but you should take a look at Occult Slayer from Complete Warrior, it's a prestige class that does everything you're looking for.

I have a feeling he's familiar

Gusmo
2018-01-07, 07:16 PM
The witch slayer class from Tome of Magic may also be of interest. Their temporary disjunction ability could serve as useful inspiration, though will saves are generally the best save for a caster. You're also going to want to give your class mettle, and possibly even improved mettle, though it should probably only work against magic and summoned creatures.

stack
2018-01-07, 07:27 PM
Should be on the homebrew subforum.

TacticsObserver
2018-01-07, 07:58 PM
giving up on magic items requires much greater benefits than the ones you give to be worth the effort. Unless you can couple it with a vow of poverty, then you get twice as many benefits for free and it doesn't make much sense. Anyway, skewed interactions aside, I like the concept, but it needs a lot more goodies. Most "anti mage" builds, especially those made by beginners, fail by getting a lot of tool to strike a wizard, while not considering how to even approach said wizard. that's the most important part. So let's see the things you have to cover

- fly. Any spellcaster with a bit of preparation will use fly or air walk, you need your own equivalent to be able to touch them. normal fighters have items for this, if you deny the class the use of magic items and buff spells you must give them a flying capability

- see invisibility. It's very easy to get invisible. If you don't want your mage slayer to stand around looking dumb while an invisible wizard shoots him, you need to give the guy a way to see invisibility. It may even be related to the spot skill, if you want to give it a mundane feel.

- self teleportation. There is a 7th level spell called forcecage, which puts you in a cage. No saving throw, and the cage can only be destroyed by a handful of spells - and dispell magic is NOT one of them. If you don't want to be rendered completely powerless by that, you need a way to teleport out. Same goes for all the "wall of ______" spells. Either you teleport, or you gain a way to dissolve them.

- evade summoned monsters. A summoner can summon a bunch of monsters in your way. Sure, they may be weak compared to you, but as soon as you put one down two more will sprout up. I've seen iron golems neutralized by having a huge earth elemental grapple them. You need some way to go past those monsters and reach the caster. the tumble skill is a possible solution.

- enemy teleportation. A caster can teleport a lot of times. Consider adding some anti-teleport skill, like casting dimensional anchor or suppressing all teleportation in a radius around you (which would, however, screw up the rest of the party)

- saving throws. Against a passably optimized spellcaster, a high base saving throw progression is not a guarantee of success. It is but one of the many bonuses you need to pile up to stand a credible chance of making it. There are save-buffing items, but you are forbidding this guy from using them... It is not too difficult to buff your casting stat to around +12, forcing saving throws with DC over 30. If all you have is a +12, and maybe a +2 from the relevant stat and a +3 from charisma, you still need to roll over 15 to succeed. And that's every round, because most high level spells are save or lose. which brings us to the next point,

well realize I allowed the Anti-mage to use Potions, Oils and ability boosting items so the Anti-mage isn't severly overwhelmed. he could fly using flight potion, use see invisability potions or even invisibility oils and dimension door oils

so allowing the anti-mage something to naturally combat this would definately make the game wonky but most mage slayer features are so i added an Anti-mage Tactic

Glaring Sight: You focus in on a Spellcaster causing your Anti-magic to Scar the targets spellcasting ability. When you focus in on a target they must roll concentration checks on whatever spell they cast as if they’re in your threat range(if they fail to cast defensively they don’t cast the spell, but the Anti-Mage doesn’t get attack of opportunity if she can’t normally attack the target) if the target is flying due to magic(or using tenser’s floating disk); the flying effect is removed, and the target falls. The mage is unable to cast teleportation spells(DC 12+your Anti-mage level+ your charisma modifier + the level of the spell Concentration in order for the casted teleportation spell to work) The mages summoned monsters can only hear you(no sight, blind sight, tremorsense, etc…). These effects only work if you’re looking at the mage. You’ll see and recognize the mage even if they are behind magic walls, invisible, disguised or Hiding. If you and the mage aren’t in combat you’ll know which direction to go to find the mage. In order to activate this tactic you must be able to see the mage this takes a standard action


- good stuff coming too late. Before level 11, your class does basically nothing. Sure, spell resistance 12+CHA+level is actually pretty good (even a bit too high, maybe, since you can buff your CHA pretty well), but you only get that at level 17. Before that you have 5+level+CHA, which pretty much sucks. Same goes for dispelling magic and dispelling strike.

ok so i boosted aura of anti-magic to 5/8/10/12 instead of 2/5/8/12
also i'm testing this gimmick and finding what downside should come with this ability to make it come at either 4th or 5th level
Magic Devourer: When an Anti-mage sees an uphill battle she may tap into a primal force to wreck casters in the battle field. Using Magic Devourer is a Full-Round Action that triggers a terrifying roar this dispells/removes 3 spells within 100ft and you gain health from each spell equal to 8 + the spells level + your Charisma modifier.
When in the Primal State you gain +20 feet of speed, you gain a +2 bonus to your Strength, Dexterity, Charisma and all your Saves. Magic spells targeting you that fail to take a effect(either it be because of a successful Save, Your SR, a failed concentration check, etc...) you also heal from the spell(same amount)



Some things are written in an unclear way and you need to clarify:

- at 5th level you gain "magic resistance", which however is not explained later. what does it do?
- greater dispelling strike at level 11 dispels a buff spell on the wizard and deals extra damage. Does it work for every single buff spell, or is it limited to 1 spell dissolved per strike? I suggest the second option, because the first would result in insta-killing, and that would be too much.

Aside from that, I like the focus the class gets on dispelling magic. that's certainly good.

whoops sorry i posted this as i was moving stuff from word to google docs so info got jagged. Magic Resistance is the new name for Magic Immunity, reason: Magic Immunity as the name would suggest was really powerful so i re-worked that.

Also yes it only dispells 1 spell i knew it would be waaay too powerful. but i also noticed i forgot something about this. it also affects Magic Items Outsiders and undead. I don't know if that changes anything

TacticsObserver
2018-01-07, 08:03 PM
I know you are into making your own class but you should take a look at Occult Slayer from Complete Warrior, it's a prestige class that does everything you're looking for.

it really doesn't plus, it's a prestige class and it's damage isn't really that good none-the-less what king of nowere said

gorfnab
2018-01-07, 09:51 PM
There is this 3rd party (Rogue Genius Games) Pathfinder Witch Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/rogue-genius-games/witch-hunter/) that seems to be similar to what you are trying to build.

King of Nowhere
2018-01-08, 10:16 AM
Also yes it only dispells 1 spell i knew it would be waaay too powerful. but i also noticed i forgot something about this. it also affects Magic Items Outsiders and undead. I don't know if that changes anything

if a target is protected by multiple buffs, which one does it dissolve? the higher level protection? one protection at random? one protection of the attacker's choosing (and in this case it must give the attacker the full knowledge of all the protections the caster has)?

I suggest the higher level protection (if there is more than one protection of the same level, one of them at random)

ExLibrisMortis
2018-01-08, 11:59 AM
I would suggest granting some sort of (Su) binding ability that scales with level and can be used once per class level per day, with a duration of concentration + 5 rounds, like bardic music. The binding should start with relatively low-key caster debuffs (deafness and entangle, say) at level 1, growing into dimensional anchor and dispel magic at level ~5, and escalating to full-blown antimagic aura + hold monster at level ~10. Make it a long-range debuff (400 ft + 40/level) and make the save DC something like 10 + 1/2 class level + highest-level spell (or SLA) the target can cast + highest-level spell (or SLA) that is active on the target + stat mod. That way, the DC goes up like crazy when facing high-level casters.

Add some ways to use the binding through a scrying sensor or through sympathetic magic (e.g. hairs of the caster you're trying to bind), and add some ways to remove the concentration requirement with a one-hour ritual, and you've got yourself a neat package that makes casters very angry.

You won't be able to take down a high-OP caster with just binding, because there's tinfoil hats and illusions and whatnot, but you can make casters very careful about appearing within LoS of you.

Deadline
2018-01-08, 12:15 PM
OP, take a look at the Suel Archanamach in Complete Arcane. It gets a Dispelling Strike ability that looks like it is better than what you have here. I'd suggest using that one (it gives more uses too).

Also, if you haven't seen it, you may want to look up the Forsaker (from Masters of the Wild), which is another anti-magic class. It's awful (what with the restrictions on using magic items - a thing that cripples martials), but it may have a few abilities or inspiration you can use.

Malroth
2018-01-08, 05:30 PM
lesson one

Magic must defeat magic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-qLC_ptImo)

Mr Adventurer
2018-01-08, 06:52 PM
I made a class along these lines, although I took a different approach: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?338815-Arcane-Justicar-a-melee-class-designed-to-mess-with-wizards

Covenant12
2018-01-08, 11:55 PM
I like the concept, but the class needs a lot of work. First, magic item restriction is crippling and not compensated nearly enough. The mage slayer feat spellcaster level/spell-like level penalty is a better approach, you want magic items to get close enough the spellcasters and get them in your threatened range. (fly, swift action teleport)

You need a way to lock down spellcasters. Improved trip/knockdown is nice until they get fly, then Crusader's thicket of blades + stand still + mage slayer can make casters cry. Tome of Battle in general is advised for a 20 level class, currently casters can just make a move action to back off (eating any AoO), then cast freely.

Some abilites aren't clear. Dazing strike: what's the duration? Painful Wound: ditto, duration of encounter is fine.

Light armor, no shield, simple weapons + longsword makes little sense to me, and is limiting. Spiked chain at 5th helps a bit, but a beatstick with no shield and no greatsword just why?

Again, I encourage you to rework this, but if I wanted a caster-hosing beatstick I would have nothing to do with your class.

Florian
2018-01-09, 05:04 AM
@Eldariel:

The core rules provide us with the basic rules for a balanced dungeon crawling game, with an underlying math that only really works when staying within the boundaries of certain parameters.

The problematic part is that it also provides lots of discreet rules elements that go way beyond what's actually supported by the system itself, in a way "breaking" the rules by not fitting the math that the system is based on (ex: compare spotting range and weapon/spell ranges, massive discrepancy here, the former being created for a dungeon environment, the later ...well, dunno, AD&D legacy item?).

I generally try to assess stuff based on how it works in the well supported area of the rules (let's call that "Bottom") first, and then care about the extremes that could be extrapolated (lets call that "Ceiling") later, if at all.

TacticsObserver
2018-01-10, 01:53 AM
Thank everyone very much i've made some very terrifying abilities and even two variants i believe this thread is resolved. (the Anti-mage google docs look nothing like this one trust me)