Making a Sniper

[Demons_eye]

Hello playground. I am going to be playing in a 5e game soon set in the Critical Role universe. I haven't seen much of it but I've had an idea for a sniper for a while and there are rules for guns in this setting I guess. I plan to play a fallen solider killed during a conflict with a stray bullet and has become a Revenant. He still has the bullet that killed him and is going to use it to kill his killer. I was planning on going pact of the blade hexblade for fun.

My problem the rules for reloading the weapons. Any long range weapon, one that would let me snipe like I want, requires an action or attack to reload. Thus most classes wont work with my concept because even Badnews, a really good weapon, isn't that good when I can only fire it once ever two rounds. I seem to be limited to classes that gain extra attacks to keep up with others. Toll the Dead for example can keep up with Badnews damage wise assuming the fighter doesn't get more attacks somehow. The way I see it is that if I am going a fighter type my role is to do damage, even more so if I am not going to tank. Warlock or Rogue I will be more utility but wont be a good sniper which is the reason I want to play this in the first place. Gunslinger itself doesn't appeal to me otherwise I wouldn't really post this.

So I seem to be torn between Fighter or Ranger to not just suck and Assassin Rogue or Hexblade Warlock to have more to do. Sell me on either? Cool trick or interesting interactions


Edit: Locked in my build as a Hexblade Warlock. Thanks people!

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Outside the box.

There is a time to snipe and a time to shoot fast and a time for melee weapons.

Is there a reason you can't have multiple weapons?

[Vaz]

If you use a Crossbow, Crossbow Expert removes Loading from those weapons. If you're really using Firearms, theres not much to it other than homebrew.

Also, general rule of a Sniper is one shot, one kill, ready to die but never will. Keeping yourself moving, and being able to make literally killer shots is prime. Firing a half dozen shots feels less Snipery.

Assassinate give you automatic critical on a Sneak Attack against targets yet to act. Alert gives you a +5 to initiative to help with that. At 6th level, as a Fighter 3/Assassin 3, you are putting down 4d12+4d6+dex against a target who hasn't acted, and guarantees you 1pt of Grit. That's averaging 33 points of damage with that first attack, and then gets 2d12+2d6 on turns after that. At your next level up, it depends on whether you want to advance gunslinging (Quickdraw, Violent Shot, Leg Shot) or Roguing (Sneak Attack, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Reliable Talent.

[Demons_eye]

Outside the box.

There is a time to snipe and a time to shoot fast and a time for melee weapons.

Is there a reason you can't have multiple weapons?

I normally have backup weapons for all my characters. While there is a time for different types/ranges of fighting I'm looking for help for building the best sniper I can. Ideally my set up would be a 4-6 knifes for when I need to melee throw stuff, handgun or two for close combat, and two riffles to snipe with. Two riffles in case of misfire or I really need to get another attack off in a round and I have a loaded gun to fire.

So again I am wondering what class builds the best type of sniper I want as that is what I want to focus on. I am leaning on fighter because of the more attacks but because I am going Revenant I am wondering if the lose of extra attacks is worth the hunting abilities of a Ranger. Of course there is always part of me that wants to Hexblade for the shunting pact weapon's to just summon a riffle out of thin air. I also have to figure out how to gain proficiency in blacksmith tools to make ammo and guns.

We are starting at level one so I wanted to have a game plan. Think I am going to have to pick up dwarf instead of elf.

Edit:


If you use a Crossbow, Crossbow Expert removes Loading from those weapons. If you're really using Firearms, theres not much to it other than homebrew.

Also, general rule of a Sniper is one shot, one kill, ready to die but never will. Keeping yourself moving, and being able to make literally killer shots is prime. Firing a half dozen shots feels less Snipery.

Assassinate give you automatic critical on a Sneak Attack against targets yet to act. Alert gives you a +5 to initiative to help with that. At 6th level, as a Fighter 3/Assassin 3, you are putting down 4d12+4d6+dex against a target who hasn't acted, and guarantees you 1pt of Grit. That's averaging 33 points of damage with that first attack, and then gets 2d12+2d6 on turns after that. At your next level up, it depends on whether you want to advance gunslinging (Quickdraw, Violent Shot, Leg Shot) or Roguing (Sneak Attack, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Reliable Talent.

Using Matthew Mercer's rules on guns. Its part of the Critical Role setting I guess. As per my first post it takes an action or a single attack to reload.

I don't expect to one shot main threats. I want to deal lots of damage from a long distance away. Prefer to get an attack or two in before they understand whats going on.

Assassin I thought about because of the ability to deal high damage but its limited to 30 feet and that point I would just be using two pistols. That's more of a Gunslinger than a sniper so I would probably not use it.

[Vaz]

Sneak attack doesn't require 30ft this edition. Just advantage, which you always have with either Grit or Assassinate, or that target to be distrscted by an enemy within 5ft.

[the secret fire]

Ranger 5/Assassin X with a longbow feels the most sniperish to me. The hand crossbow is more like a sidearm. Snipers should use the biggest ranged weapon they can find, no?

[2D8HP]

Sneak attack doesn't require 30ft this edition. Just advantage, which you always have with either Grit or Assassinate, or that target to be distrscted by an enemy within 5ft..
I know "Assassinate", "Reckless Attack" (from Barbarian), and "Fighting Spirit" (from Samurai) as ways to get Advantage, but "Grit" I don't know, what's it from?

[pdegan2814]

.
I know "Assassinate", "Reckless Attack" (from Barbarian), and "Fighting Spirit" (from Samurai) as ways to get Advantage, but "Grit" I don't know, what's it from?

"Grit" is a class resource from the Gunslinger homebrew that Matthew Mercer(DM for Critical Role) created to bring one of the characters into 5e from Pathfinder when they converted. It's on the DMsGuild, and is a Fighter subclass. They have Grit points based on their Wisdom modifier that they spend for trick shots and other such things. I believe the Grit points recharge on a short rest, plus they can regain 1 Grit point when they score a critical hit. Haven't read the .pdf in a while.

[danpit2991]

v human warlock of your choice
grab spell sniper with your free feat pick a decent attack cantrip of your choice
at level 2 warlock take the antagonizing blast and eldritch spear invocations bam D10 plus CHA from 600 feet away
level 4 feat war caster


there it is fast easy, best range good damage and leaves everything else open for whatever you want to do with a single class

[2D8HP]

"Grit" is.....
Thanks!

:smile:

[danpit2991]

oops i got ahead of myself with my self satisfied reply and missed the guns part idk maybe flavor the EB as coming from your rifle hmmm maybe a pact weapon similar to moon bow or something like that



EDIT> so maybe flavor your pact weapon as a rifle with a bayonet attached and just use the stats from some other polearm or weapon from the table and re-flavor PAM as bayonet master ..... great now i want to play this one myself lol

[danpit2991]

crikey i just had another thought ..sorry about the repeated replies

as for the close combat sidearm aspect xbow expert and a flavoring of the pact weapon as a pistol ohhhhwait

something like this http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_438557

stat the blade however you see fit i think short sword or something similar would be best but you do you boo boo and your side arm is taken care of

the biggest reason i said reflavor the pact weapon as a rifle/bayonet and cutlass pistol is because without moon bow and the fey patron it cant be ranged but that is ok cause the "bullets" are EB so technically your pact weapons are melee lol this gets you away from haftin to make guns and ammo and track expenditures and whatnot

flavor wise you are a revenant with unholy powers so its natural that the eldritch powers from beyond the grave give you weapons that you are familiar with and are powered by your hatred and need to acomplish your goals why would spawn use a mere gun to enact his revenge

[Demons_eye]

Sneak attack doesn't require 30ft this edition. Just advantage, which you always have with either Grit or Assassinate, or that target to be distrscted by an enemy within 5ft.

Well that ups the Rogue option a lot. I only fear that I will get few chances to pull off an assassination like that. Also if I dipped fighter I wouldn't go gunslinger. I just dislike that class in general and dipping into fighter I think Battlemaster would be better. If I stayed fighter gunslinger might be worth it.


v human warlock of your choice
grab spell sniper with your free feat pick a decent attack cantrip of your choice
at level 2 warlock take the antagonizing blast and eldritch spear invocations bam D10 plus CHA from 600 feet away
level 4 feat war caster


there it is fast easy, best range good damage and leaves everything else open for whatever you want to do with a single class

Can't varrient human with Revenant. You lose the feat and skills for becoming one. Also wont post everything as I don't know the rules for posting copyrighted materials but muskets have a max range of 800 at a d12 and badnews (the sniper) has a max range of 1200 att 2d12. I plan to work with my DM to make something more in the middle ground or least try to.

[Vaz]

Well that ups the Rogue option a lot. I only fear that I will get few chances to pull off an assassination like that. Also if I dipped fighter I wouldn't go gunslinger. I just dislike that class in general and dipping into fighter I think Battlemaster would be better. If I stayed fighter gunslinger might be worth it.
Without gunslinger, you are not considered proficient with the firearms per the Gunslinger archetype. Battle Master is definitely decent if you can swing getting firearm proficiency through your DM.

[Madfellow]

My problem the rules for reloading the weapons. Any long range weapon, one that would let me snipe like I want, requires an action or attack to reload. Thus most classes wont work with my concept because even Badnews, a really good weapon, isn't that good when I can only fire it once ever two rounds. I seem to be limited to classes that gain extra attacks to keep up with others. Toll the Dead for example can keep up with Badnews damage wise assuming the fighter doesn't get more attacks somehow. The way I see it is that if I am going a fighter type my role is to do damage, even more so if I am not going to tank. Warlock or Rogue I will be more utility but wont be a good sniper which is the reason I want to play this in the first place. Gunslinger itself doesn't appeal to me otherwise I wouldn't really post this.

So I seem to be torn between Fighter or Ranger to not just suck and Assassin Rogue or Hexblade Warlock to have more to do. Sell me on either? Cool trick or interesting interactions


Without gunslinger, you are not considered proficient with the firearms per the Gunslinger archetype. Battle Master is definitely decent if you can swing getting firearm proficiency through your DM.

Hello! DM here. Yeah, we're home brewing it so that firearms are martial weapons, and available for cheaper than what's listed (10% the listed price). I'd thought the musket had a reload value of 2, but upon checking the dms guild document it seems I was mistaken. That said, it'd be easy enough to build or buy a 2-barrel musket for, say, 75gp (50% up from a single barrel) so you could get 2 good shots off before needing to reload or switch.

Break's almost over, but we can talk more later.

[danpit2991]

Can't varrient human with Revenant. You lose the feat and skills for becoming one. Also wont post everything as I don't know the rules for posting copyrighted materials but muskets have a max range of 800 at a d12 and badnews (the sniper) has a max range of 1200 att 2d12. I plan to work with my DM to make something more in the middle ground or least try to.



yea missed that, ok bear with me for a second her how about....... sorlock with everything i first posted about weapons and flavor n such with EB+spell sniper+ distant metamagis that gets you 1200 feet range sure the damage isnt 2D12 but at higer levels you will do 4D10 plus you get the usual sorlock cheese always have a magical weapon and revenat just begs for warlock

[Demons_eye]

Without gunslinger, you are not considered proficient with the firearms per the Gunslinger archetype. Battle Master is definitely decent if you can swing getting firearm proficiency through your DM.

As Madfellow said. When we talked about the lore behind it, it was also implied that you could be trained to use it.


yea missed that, ok bear with me for a second her how about....... sorlock with everything i first posted about weapons and flavor n such with EB+spell sniper+ distant metamagis that gets you 1200 feet range sure the damage isnt 2D12 but at higer levels you will do 4D10 plus you get the usual sorlock cheese always have a magical weapon and revenat just begs for warlock


While impressive I still wouldn't want to sink all that resources into something like that. Think with the above I will just got straight Hexblade Warlock.

[danpit2991]

While impressive I still wouldn't want to sink all that resources into something like that. Think with the above I will just got straight Hexblade Warlock.

i get that but even as a straight hexblade you still get EB and can flavor your pact weapon however you want so even without the excessive range you can still season things with the spices from my earlier posts for better flavor lol

[Vogie]

I could totally see warlock having an awesome impact as a sniper. Assuming you're using the Critical Role Gunslinger/Fighter as a main class, where you'll have something other than Charisma as your main stat.

Devil's Sight and Darkness Combo
Eldritch Smite invocation giving your pact weapon shots a 1d8+Xd8 (where X is the level of the spell slot used) plus knocking them prone. Requires 5 levels in Warlock.
At low levels, True Strike will make sure you hit before you get multiple attacks, especially if you're using Sharpshooter feat at close range
Eldritch Spear invocation (or Spell Sniper feat) giving you a second long(ish) range shot (300ft or 240ft, respectively) that's always available even without weapon in hand using Eldritch Blast. Depending on the setting, any of the EB Invocation upgrades could give you "trick shots".
If your rifle is not a magic weapon, the Improved Pact Weapon Invocations will make it one. (Improved for +1, Superior at 9 for +2, I doubt you'll get to 15th level warlock for the +3)
If guns are a part of the world (as opposed to the Percy's personal experiments) your DM may require the Arcane Gunslinger invocation (UA) to allow long arms and/or sidearms as pact weapons.


Trick Shot Invocations:

Kiss of Mephistopheles for AOE damage
Grasp of Hadar to yank people off boats or castle walls.
Repelling Blast to knock people off horses, chariots, and cliffs.

[Demons_eye]

i get that but even as a straight hexblade you still get EB and can flavor your pact weapon however you want so even without the excessive range you can still season things with the spices from my earlier posts for better flavor lol

Debatable. I prefer the real rules for guns meaning less hoops to jump. I also probably wont pick up Eldritch Blast because of the weapons.


I could totally see warlock having an awesome impact as a sniper. Assuming you're using the Critical Role Gunslinger/Fighter as a main class, where you'll have something other than Charisma as your main stat.

Devil's Sight and Darkness Combo
Eldritch Smite invocation giving your pact weapon shots a 1d8+Xd8 (where X is the level of the spell slot used) plus knocking them prone. Requires 5 levels in Warlock.
At low levels, True Strike will make sure you hit before you get multiple attacks, especially if you're using Sharpshooter feat at close range
Eldritch Spear invocation (or Spell Sniper feat) giving you a second long(ish) range shot (300ft or 240ft, respectively) that's always available even without weapon in hand using Eldritch Blast. Depending on the setting, any of the EB Invocation upgrades could give you "trick shots".
If your rifle is not a magic weapon, the Improved Pact Weapon Invocations will make it one. (Improved for +1, Superior at 9 for +2, I doubt you'll get to 15th level warlock for the +3)
If guns are a part of the world (as opposed to the Percy's personal experiments) your DM may require the Arcane Gunslinger invocation (UA) to allow long arms and/or sidearms as pact weapons.


Trick Shot Invocations:

Kiss of Mephistopheles for AOE damage
Grasp of Hadar to yank people off boats or castle walls.
Repelling Blast to knock people off horses, chariots, and cliffs.


As said above he ruled that its a marital weapon so no need to do fighter besides the increase fire rate. Already talked to him about improved pact weapon letting me use guns so I should be good for the most part. Devils sight and Darkness are less useful to me because I would like to be farther back that 120 feet. I know that wont happen much still not worth blinding my allies at the cost of a spell and invocation. True strike will be vital to my plans later on and will take the place of 'Aiming' as 5e doesn't have rules for that. Setting is Tal'dorei so don't know if I will need Arcane Gunslinger but will talk to my DM about it.

[Vogie]

As said above he ruled that its a marital weapon so no need to do fighter besides the increase fire rate. Already talked to him about improved pact weapon letting me use guns so I should be good for the most part. Devils sight and Darkness are less useful to me because I would like to be farther back that 120 feet. I know that wont happen much still not worth blinding my allies at the cost of a spell and invocation. True strike will be vital to my plans later on and will take the place of 'Aiming' as 5e doesn't have rules for that. Setting is Tal'dorei so don't know if I will need Arcane Gunslinger but will talk to my DM about it.

Awesome. In that case, you can pick up Thirsting Invocation at 5 for multiple attacks.

You can still do a 3-level dip in Rogue for the ability to sneak attack (works great with true strike) and cunning actions, then:

Assassination for more advantage, to increase damage on Surprised targets, or
Swashbuckler for improved initiative, ability to slip out of melee without Attacks of Opportunity, AND Use Sneak attacks without advantage at close range


You could also do a one-level dip in Cleric or Druid for Guidance. Something like Guiding Bolt would fit the theme, as well as various healing spells, and other team utility

Since you're not tapping into EB shenanigans, a 3 level dip in Fighter could give you +2 bonus to ranged attack rolls, and:

Arcane "archer" will give you a pair of Arcane Shots to give you trick shots... provided your DM allows those "arrow" shots to apply to your rifle.
Battle master allows you 3 Maneuvers to choose from - specifically, the maneuvers that only call for a "weapon attack" instead of a "melee attack". So you can choose from Disarming Attack, Distracting Strike, Precision Attack, Pushing Attack, Rally, or Trip Attack