Ways to help a pair of flailing Psions

[Seerow]

I am DMing a campaign of characters who are currently level 6. After a bit of a group shake up, I have two new players in the group. A couple who decided to help each other build characters and showed up at the table with nearly identical characters.

In this case, a pair of psions. Both psions have feats dumped into archery of all things, and no buffing powers picked. The main differences between them currently are:

Psion 1 is a Telepath. I don't have his full character sheet in front of me, but he has as far as I know a single Telepath power (Mindlink), and besides that he has mostly used Energy Wall, Energy Bolt, and Share Pain, Forced. He picked Dromite as a race (yes I saw that and had to go look up what it was, don't feel bad if you do as well. When you get back join me in the facepalm), and an Int score of 14 (his 3rd highest stat. With highest going into Con and Dex).

Psion 2 isn't quite as bad off. She is a Shaper. Her Race is Elan, which while not optimal is at least useful. She started with her highest stat in Int. Right now she has started each combat with Summoning an Astral construct, and then she has been switching to Archery or to Energy Blasts (seeing a pattern?).


So what I am looking for is ideas on how to not just help with making a weak psion more effective, but things I can do from the DM side of the screen to guide/push them into more unique styles. You can have two pure psions who play and act very differently... but in this case the two of them really just seem like the same character but one is way better than the other.

I am open to just about anything, the other characters in the campaign are pretty high power so there is plenty of room for both of these characters to grow without breaking much. Things I am especially looking for:
-Feats/Powers that I can float to the players that might encourage them more towards differentiating from each other. In the worst case scenario I can arrange to have a couple power stones of psychic reformation show up, or just let them do a full retrain, if we find things they actually find interesting.

-Literally anything to make Dromite playable. This one is killing me because when I look at the race I see literally nothing flavorful or redeeming about it. I do not understand why the player wanted it so badly even after being warned what a handicap LA would be. LA Buyoff is the closest thing, but that is a can of worms I am trying to avoid because once that pandora's box is open, other players will take advantage of it for far stronger options.

-Interesting effects that may or may not exist in the rules that would make sense for or be fun for characters of these archetypes. I am not afraid of homebrew, and not above throwing overpowered magic items at struggling players.

[noob]

The only thing that could possibly justify level adjustment for dromite is the bonus to natural armor.
Maybe he could find a ritual that allows to turn his three points of natural armor in a psion level(and keep the same ecl)
(maybe silly nonsense such as inscribing so many psionic tattoos on his shell that his shell loses integrity)
(trying to convince him to do this ritual might be hard but you might do with less natural armor trade if you think it will not make the other player angry about him both having "op armor"(it is very low to get only +4 armor: he could just wear a full plate) and the same level)
The thing is that both of those players believe damage and combat is a major part of the game.(And picked up inefficient tactics for that)
How much charisma do the telepath have?(I mean the telepath casting stat is charisma)

[SangoProduction]

I mean. What's the problem here? Is it because the blasting / archery just isn't working to solve the group's problems? Is anyone coming out of it frustrated, or complaining?

As far as the Dromite dude, have him find something like the Dromite Queen's Nectar, which unlocks their true hivemind, letting him share powerpoints with those in the mindlink, and maybe grant temporary power points of Psion level, when he casts Mindlink. (Maybe limit that to a few times a day, if that gets abused beyond your liking.)

This has a couple effects, aside from being cool/thematic, but most pertinent to you: it encourages casting (as opposed to archery). They are likely the type of player(s) that sees a limited resource (even if it refills) as something to be hoarded, so after using a bit of power, they switch off to reserve it.

For the archer, you could give something like a Blood Shaper Bow. Each time it hits a target that's vulnerable to Bleed (dealing lethal damage), gain 1 temporary power point until the end of your next turn, to be spent on Shaper powers only. Any such constructs have a redish hue to them.


-Note: These are probably ridiculous, but hey. You said they need a leg up.

[Caelestion]

Telepaths haven't manifested off Cha since 3.0.

[noob]

Ok so he have 14 int.
I guess he will not have problems manifesting before level 9 which will happen very late and by this time he will have a headband of intellect +2.
He might have problems with int drain but it is not very common and usually the save is will(and it is the psion strong save)

[weckar]

I don't see the hate for Dromites. They get some neat abilities, they just look weird. They make for decent if not good Tashalatora, and their sensory abilities come in handy. What resistance did they pick? Fire 5 allows you to just wade through most natural fires without issue, after all.

[noob]

I don't see the hate for Dromites. They get some neat abilities, they just look weird. They make for decent if not good Tashalatora, and their sensory abilities come in handy. What resistance did they pick? Fire 5 allows you to just wade through most natural fires without issue, after all.

The problem is la+1 for just a very little bit of armor and some average abilities(a bit inferior to a bonus feat and +1 skill point per level).
If I play a la +1 race I do not want 3 bonus armor I want 6 bonus armor or more(like mineral warrior)
Without the bonus armor and the la it would be a fairly average race.(not overpowered but not bad either)
With 2 natural armor it could be turned into a good la +0 race(you would still be missing out relatively to strongheart halfling or wisperer gnome)

[weckar]

Scent, Blindfight, an inherent power point pool and psi-like ability, +2 Spot (maybe the most rolled skill in the game) and being a Monstrous Humanoid? Yes please. I'll grant that the ability score adjustments are less than ideal, but this seems to me to be a +1 LA race the way the Goliath is. The nat armor, small size and energy resist are just icing.

EDIT: Mineral Warrior is a terrible example too. Not only is it a template, but one of the most OP +1 LA templates out there.

[noob]

It is not +2 spot it is +1 spot because your la makes you have one less level.(so you have one less rank in spot assuming that you care about spot enough for taking a feat or trait making it a class skill and if you do not then you will forever be worse than the wizard's eagle)
If you are a straight psion the inherent power point bonus and the energy ray is negligible compared to one level since those two are the equivalent of two bonus power points while a level in psion gives more depending on the level.(yes the energy ray will scale up but at a rate so slow that quickly you will never use it)
You are small but you could be small with another cooler race such as strongheart halfling(is small and gets the bonus feat he wants)
In the end with the La it is really awful for playing a psion(in fact you get a bunch of small bonuses but you lose hp due to lower hit dice at low level and at high level you lose a lot of power and power points) and without the la(and without the armor) it would be good for playing a wilder and average for a psion.

[Seerow]

I mean. What's the problem here? Is it because the blasting / archery just isn't working to solve the group's problems? Is anyone coming out of it frustrated, or complaining?


There has been repeated cases in the first two sessions since they started these characters of going "oh that's how that works? eugh". These two have supposedly played 3.5 a lot in the past, but if they have I can only imagine it was one that ignored a lot of rules just based on some of the offhand comments they've made. At least one of the players is already feeling notably weak compared to the party average. The other problem was the fact that they came in with such similar characters. I am not kidding when I say the main difference between the two character was stat alotment, race, and 2-3 powers known.

As far as the problem with the focus on Archery, part of the problem is they are focusing on it enough to cost them resources that would be better elsewhere (investing 2-3 feats in it, in the dromite's case prioritizing Dex over Int) but not investing enough to actually make a decent gish out of it (no buffs or anything else to help make up for their natural deficiencies).

So I guess priority one is getting dromite out of the LA hole and giving him a "I got 1 LA and all I got was this scattering of crappy abilities" t-shirt, then priority two is getting some diversity into the two characters, getting them items that lend towards what their alleged focus is to kind of guide them more towards that path rather than generic blaster. I honestly get the impression that they both fall back on archery and blasting not because that is really what they care about, but because those are the easiest ranged options they were able to find.




Anyway, all of the suggestions thus far have been helpful, I appreciate it!

[noob]

Also another problem is that archery usually does not makes great gishes.(I mean you can but that will be very hard)
Unless you start grabbing Hank's Energy Bow(the only useful bow in all of dnd: even Corellon bow is 100 times inferior(unless you allow adding aptitude to a weapon but that is pure cheese)) and power attacking.
If such bow came they might stop using psionics and in fact become weaker.

[Pux]

Here is the thing. They both chose to be archers and they both chose to be psions. They even both chose their respective races.

My thought is we should find options that don't undermine their choices but make them viable. The easiest way I see to do that is custom magic items/feats since they made a lot of suboptimal choices and the other characters leave you a lot of wiggle room. Since they both are playing very similar character concepts custom feats might end up on both sheets and app the custom items could end up on one of the characters.

My answer magic items sets that share slots and highlight the differences.

First, the dromite character. From what we know they have made a few choices blasting powers, telepath specialty, dromite race, and an archery focus.

Secondly the Elan. Major difference I see is specialty, willingness to throw a minion into the melee, and race.

They are both psions. I would suggest the sets each include a third eye, not because they are normally psionic but the flavor appeals to me. I would also suggest a psychoactive skin in each and bracers for one and a quiver for the other. Here are the items/sets I would go with.

Dromite:
Mind Master's Quiver: (mind blaster also works)
Each time an arrow drawn from this quiver strikes a foe roll a d4 and gain the corresponding benefit till the end of your next turn, you may gain the same benefit twice:
1: all fire powers you manifest deal 1 extra damage per die.
2: all cold damage you deal also reduces the movement speed of those damaged by 10feet.
3: your manifester level for all electric powers is 1 higher.
4: all Sonic damage dealt has a chance to deafen the target for 1d4 rounds if they fail a fort save DC equal to DC of the power used, even if the power does not normally allow a save.
Red shirt of Garibaldi:
The save DC of your mind link power is increased by 2. Additionally, you may manifest powers as if you were in the location of any unwilling participant mind linked with you.
Garibaldi's third eye:
When placed on your forehead this item attached an expands your mind teaching you the mindlink power. If you already know the mind link power you instead do not have to pay the augment cost to cast it on an unwilling target. Additionally, you may expend your psionic focus while making a weapon attack to manifest the mindlink power as a swift action against the target of your attack. If your attack hits they take a penalty on the will save equal to the damage dealt by the attack.

Or play up on the dromite. He gained some natural armor, doesn't have to worry about acf, and according to you has good dex put him on the front lines...with a bow.

Rainment of the royal guard:
Skin of the queen mother:
You may expend your psionic focus as an immediate action to gain resistance 5 to all of the options available to a dromite till the end of your next turn. Additionally your energy Ray may use the damage type of any of the options.
Glaring third eye:
After wearing the third eye for 24 hours you may channel power points into your carpace as a free action ever turn. For every 2 power points you channel your carpace will deal 1d6 energy damage of the same type you have resistance to.(if used in conjunction with skin of the queen mother 1d6 of each energy type).
Guardian's Buckler:
You gain the standstill feat, threaten squares around you, and can take attacks of opportunity with a bow. Attacking with a bow in melee still provokes an attack of opportunity.

I know what you are thinking. "Doesn't dromite lose them a hit die? Isn't the psionic hit die tiny?" You are right. Here is where this set excels. They will likely be rerolling before too long to a better and different character concept.(more likely different but bad but who knows)

The Elan:
Astral Architect's apparel:
Bendel's Bracers of Blasting:
As a full round action you may fire a single arrow and attach any power you know with a manifesting time of 1standard action and up to a level equal to one third your manifester level. The bows range is treated as the range of the power and the creature struck is the target of the power or center of the emination.
Coin of countless constructs:
This third eye looks like a coin. You may expend your psionic focus as a swift action when shaping an astral construct to shape one extra identical astral construct.
Dermis of diverse designs:
When shaping an astral construct you may select one additional option from menu A.

I personally love collection benefits. So if you like set bonuses I would consider these.
Garibaldi's set:
2 pieces: you may augment mind link with 1 free power point still limited by your manifester level.
3 pieces: the free augmentation increases to 2 power points and the set also grants you psionic dominate and all effects of the set that work with mind link also work with psionic dominate.

Hive queen:
2 pieces: you may expend your psionic focus to shaken any target who takes damage from your empowered carapace.
3 pieces: you are no longer slowed by medium or heavier armor.

Architect's:
2 pieces: any target you deal damage to with a power is considered flanked by your astral constructs. If your astral construct deals damage to a target the save DC of any of your powers is increased by two for that target.
3 pieces: you are linked with your astral constructs. If they are within 60 feet of you you may manifest powers as if you were located in their space.

I also have lots entries for all three sets but hate typing on a phone.