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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Pyrokinetic Class 5e (PEACH, obviously)



Lockwolfe
2018-01-09, 02:09 AM
I have just finished my first homebrew class. As it is my first, I don't expect it to be completely balanced, and could use some help.

Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14eaJKql88JBaQ72FjeOJN5n9A1WhewkIS6r9EkBi9hc/edit?usp=sharing

Hykeru
2018-01-11, 12:34 AM
Wow.

I have literally never seen a more overpowered class in my life! I mean this thing is OP! I mean are you AWARE of how much damage this thing can dish out in a single turn? I don't know that you are, because you have a second level ability that allows you to dump an undefined amount of expendable points (which you have in spades, by the way) to deal an amount of damage that is well well well beyond the level curve! Seriously, try calculating it at any level, and you'll find it can just about 1HKO any creature you'd fight at that level.

What you've done is essentially take all of the best abilities of all the other classes and boast them, before dumping them all into this class, while shouting "because FIRE!" Seriously, most of the abilities make no sense! How does fire, let you cast Spider Climb? In what way does fire give you proficiency in ALL saving throws?

All of your archetypes just turn the character into another class, but with FIRE! And ridiculously unbalanced! In which case, why not just play those classes, and then multi-class into Sorcerer? I seriously think you'll have a nightmare of a time finding a table to play that class at. I don't think a single DM will let you close to their world with that game breaker, and frankly, if you do play with that class, the other players are going to resent you. That class is the very definition of a Mary Sue.



Look, I'm sorry for being so harsh. You did ask for critiscism though, and if you want to get better, I think this is what you need to hear. If you want to make that class anything approaching playable, here are some constructive tips:

1) Settle on a theme. Characters that can do anything and everything are boring, because nothing can possibly challenge them. Well defined strengths AND weaknesses are the key to making a class that will be fun and interesting for both you and other players.
It sounds like you're set on fire being this class' main strength, so you need to take a serious look and ask yourself, "what can fire, EVEN magical fire, really do?" Lot's of stuff, I'm sure, but there's even more stuff that it can't do, and that's where the other members of the party need to come in and cover you. That's where the fun is!

2) I'm going to assume that you don't own a DM's Guide, but if you're going to design classes, it's an indispensable resource. At the very least, the next time you're looking through the Player's Handbook, searching for cool abilities to, "borrow" you should read the text of those rules very carefully. They may seem arbitrary, or restrictive, but I promise you, they improve the game immeasurably. Try and think what would happen if those rules weren't there. Would tasks be too hard to complete? Or too easy? Keep in mind the sense of satisfaction that comes from completing a difficult challenge. That satisfaction is what those rules aim to provide.

Best of luck in improving the class. I apologize for being so rude at the beginning, but I hope that my message got across.

Lalliman
2018-01-11, 05:29 AM
Having looked at Hykeru's comment before reading the class, it wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. You didn't, for instance, thoughtlessly combine the full capabilities of a fighter and a sorcerer, as the chucklef*cks at DnD Wiki are prone to do. Even so, it is too much: the class has basically the full functionality of a paladin, with the warlock's invocations added right on top.

So something is gonna have to give. Completely removing the Flame Seals would bring the class down to approximately the right level, but since those are an interesting source of customisation you probably don't want to do that. So the other option is to nerf the core class to where it's considerably weaker than a paladin. I can't really give more specific advice than that, you're gonna have to decide for yourself what's essential and what isn't.

Regarding what Hykeru said about the ability to one-shot any creature: Burning Smite has to adhere to your level-based Flame Point limit, so that doesn't work. I don't blame you for missing it though, it takes some connecting the dots to realise that the point limit implicitly applies to Flame Seals.

Regarding the choice of spells, there are definitely some weird ones in there. Some are far-fetched but still understandable, like Longstrider. I guess it implies that you're doing that cartoon thing where you run really fast and a trail of fire blazes behind you. And I suppose that Enhance Ability and Haste imply bolstering some kind of internal fire.

But some are really hard to justify. Why is Charm Person in there? Cause Fear, Compelled Duel, Spider Climb, Steel Wind Strike, Skill Empowerment? The subclasses also get Shield, Hold Monster, Zone of Truth, Silence, Counterspell, Locate Creature, Dispel Evil and Good, Disguise Self, Darkness, Slow, Greater Invisibility, Seeming. All spells that don't seem to have a thematic link to fire.

It calls into question the thematic nature of the class. Is the pyrokinetic someone who is specifically endowed with the power of fire, like a firebender from Avatar? Or is it just a type of mage who happens to specialise in fire, but can learn other things if they want to? It currently seems like the latter. I guess you don't want the class to be too overspecialised, but if someone chooses to play a class called Pyrokinetic, then they're probably fine with being a guy who does little else than burning things. Besides, Unyielding Power already ensures that your fire will work against most things anyways.

Hykeru
2018-01-12, 05:46 AM
I agree with most of what you said, and I see what you're talking about with burning smite. That said, being able to dump 2-7d8 extra damage into your attacks every turn is still way too powerful. Other classes that use point based resources, like the Sorcerer and Monk max out at 20 points. I don't understand the need to even have these points for casting spells. It seems needlessly complicated, since you've given your class a spellcasting feature anyway. It seems needlessly complicated. It also allows for the character to be way more versatile, since it can cast multiple high level spells, instead of having low level spell slots to use up. Which is yet another way that the character is overpowered and needs balancing.

Lockwolfe
2018-01-12, 07:56 AM
Wow.

I have literally never seen a more overpowered class in my life! I mean this thing is OP! I mean are you AWARE of how much damage this thing can dish out in a single turn? I don't know that you are, because you have a second level ability that allows you to dump an undefined amount of expendable points (which you have in spades, by the way) to deal an amount of damage that is well well well beyond the level curve! Seriously, try calculating it at any level, and you'll find it can just about 1HKO any creature you'd fight at that level.

What you've done is essentially take all of the best abilities of all the other classes and boast them, before dumping them all into this class, while shouting "because FIRE!" Seriously, most of the abilities make no sense! How does fire, let you cast Spider Climb? In what way does fire give you proficiency in ALL saving throws?

All of your archetypes just turn the character into another class, but with FIRE! And ridiculously unbalanced! In which case, why not just play those classes, and then multi-class into Sorcerer? I seriously think you'll have a nightmare of a time finding a table to play that class at. I don't think a single DM will let you close to their world with that game breaker, and frankly, if you do play with that class, the other players are going to resent you. That class is the very definition of a Mary Sue.



Look, I'm sorry for being so harsh. You did ask for critiscism though, and if you want to get better, I think this is what you need to hear. If you want to make that class anything approaching playable, here are some constructive tips:

1) Settle on a theme. Characters that can do anything and everything are boring, because nothing can possibly challenge them. Well defined strengths AND weaknesses are the key to making a class that will be fun and interesting for both you and other players.
It sounds like you're set on fire being this class' main strength, so you need to take a serious look and ask yourself, "what can fire, EVEN magical fire, really do?" Lot's of stuff, I'm sure, but there's even more stuff that it can't do, and that's where the other members of the party need to come in and cover you. That's where the fun is!

2) I'm going to assume that you don't own a DM's Guide, but if you're going to design classes, it's an indispensable resource. At the very least, the next time you're looking through the Player's Handbook, searching for cool abilities to, "borrow" you should read the text of those rules very carefully. They may seem arbitrary, or restrictive, but I promise you, they improve the game immeasurably. Try and think what would happen if those rules weren't there. Would tasks be too hard to complete? Or too easy? Keep in mind the sense of satisfaction that comes from completing a difficult challenge. That satisfaction is what those rules aim to provide.

Best of luck in improving the class. I apologize for being so rude at the beginning, but I hope that my message got across.

Criticism is welcome. This is my first homebrew class, so I expect a lot of changes to be made before this thing is finished. That said, maybe tone it down a bit?

Lalliman
2018-01-12, 08:11 AM
I agree with most of what you said, and I see what you're talking about with burning smite. That said, being able to dump 2-7d8 extra damage into your attacks every turn is still way too powerful.
Upon second thought, there is indeed an issue here: while the total damage potential of Burning Smite is about equal to Divine Smite at any level, the Pyrokinetic can deal this damage out faster by applying the maximum possible amount of damage to each strike, should he want to. The paladin can't do this. He can spend a 3rd level spell slot to deal 4d8 damage, but he can't spend multiple 1st level slots to achieve the same. His damage has to be more spread-out.

And, indeed, the paladin can't smite for more than 5d8 at a time, while this class can go as high as 7d8 at high level.


I don't understand the need to even have these points for casting spells. It seems needlessly complicated, since you've given your class a spellcasting feature anyway. It seems needlessly complicated.
This I don't understand. In what universe is point-based casting more complicated that the arcane clusterf*ck that is Vancian casting? It is indeed more versatile, and that should be accounted for, but I don't think there's anything complicated about it.

Lockwolfe
2018-01-12, 03:45 PM
I thought I had set a limit on the smite equal to your Intelligence modifier. I apparently forgot to add that. I went back and fixed it and deleted a few of the unthematic spells from the general spell list.