Effects of the PC on Adventurer's League

[GreyBlack]

So, before I begin, I would just like to note that my background is pretty heavily in other editions. In those editions, I always felt like my PC had an effect on the world around them, and that the choices that the PC's made actually shaped their world.

That being said... my DM is currently running a, admittedly newer, group through the AL modules set in Phlan. Throughout this, I can't help but feel that the PC's aren't actually having a significant effect on the world around them. Admittedly, this is mostly a design choice; you can't have a structure like Adventurer's League and still expect the PC's to feel like they're effecting the politics of the realm in the same way as more personalized play.

In saying that, it does kind of rub me the wrong way. To draw a parallel, it feels like I'm playing World of Warcraft; the story is there and the quests are leading through it, some of which are actually pretty compelling. However, it feels like my character, despite killing the Lich King, isn't having an effect on the world around me.

Am I wrong to think that this is the case? Is something happening behind the scenes in the Adventurer's League modules that I'm not aware of that will make me think otherwise later on? Or is this a case of MMRPG that persists throughout the entire system?

[Vaz]

Adventurer's League is DnD for people who can't play with a given group regularly. If you're capable of playing through a decent sized module with the same group, you're capable of playing DnD without being constrained by the Adventurer's League.

Have a word with the DM and see if they'd be willing to move away from the Adventurer's League model.

[GreyBlack]

Adventurer's League is DnD for people who can't play with a given group regularly. If you're capable of playing through a decent sized module with the same group, you're capable of playing DnD without being constrained by the Adventurer's League.

Have a word with the DM and see if they'd be willing to move away from the Adventurer's League model.

Ehh... I've spoken with him a couple times and he seems pretty married to the model. Admittedly, there are some definite benefits to it (quick quantification of how well known you are by your chosen faction, for example), but myself and one other in the group (ironically, my brother, who has even more TTRPG experience than I do) are both feeling somewhat constrained by the AL model. I'll definitely see if I can broach the topic again with him.

ETA: Just for an example: I've opted to play a Lawful Evil cleric of Helm. My entire modus operendi is to basically create a secret police situation in the city to watch the goings-on and to see if I can elevate myself into a position of power through manipulation of the law. Despite my attempts to really roleplay this out (e.g. paying families a silver or two each week as long as they keep me informed, taking street urchins and teaching them to be spies, trying to foster alliances with some of the higher-ups in the city), it really feels like this is a wasted endeavor for me because the module never expected someone to try this sort of tactic. All it's doing is draining my money more than helping the group out.

[BloodOgre]

If you play with a regular AL group, that can help you feel like your PC is affecting the world, or at least his/her part of the world. The AL modules are designed to compliment, or run parallel to the big expensive campaign books WotC sells (HotDQ, PotA, etc), although they occur in a different part of Faerun. And while many of the individual adventures don't feel like they affect the world much, you should be detecting a common thread (i.e. dragon cults and pool of radiance in Season 1), and some of the adventures should make you feel like your PC is part of something greater (Defense of Phlan in season 1) if the DM isn't just half-@$$ing it.

Of course, knowing that a few other groups at other tables near you (not to mention the hundreds of other groups around the country) are going through the same thing, can tamper that feeling that your PC has meaning in the "world".

[Easy_Lee]

AL DMs are supposed to run the pregen modules basically as written. They have some restrictions on changes they're allowed to make. In my experience, this leads to a more railroady style. To put it simply, the encounters are designed ahead of time, but the players' solutions to those encounters are not.

One of the most wonderful things that can happen in D&D is when a campaign goes off the rails, so to speak, and the DM knows enough about the lore of his world to improvise. As per my understanding, that basically can't happen in AL.

If you're looking for the latter, the most reliable way to induce it is to run the campaign yourself, potentially using players you met through AL. I wish I had better advice for you, but the sad truth is that most DMs are either not experienced enough to do that sort of thing or they are more interested in telling their own story, meaning a campaign with rails just like AL.

[GreyBlack]

If you play with a regular AL group, that can help you feel like your PC is affecting the world, or at least his/her part of the world. The AL modules are designed to compliment, or run parallel to the big expensive campaign books WotC sells (HotDQ, PotA, etc), although they occur in a different part of Faerun. And while many of the individual adventures don't feel like they affect the world much, you should be detecting a common thread (i.e. dragon cults and pool of radiance in Season 1), and some of the adventures should make you feel like your PC is part of something greater (Defense of Phlan in season 1) if the DM isn't just half-@$$ing it.

Of course, knowing that a few other groups at other tables near you (not to mention the hundreds of other groups around the country) are going through the same thing, can tamper that feeling that your PC has meaning in the "world".

Haven't finished Season 1 yet; just finished Shadow of Moonsea and trying to avoid spoilers as much as possible. That said, I am absolutely picking up on those recurring elements, though I wouldn't necessarily call them themes, for the season. (I ran the first 3 chapters of HotDQ for the group) That's not too hard. My problem is more in the element that the modules feel too self-contained to allow for expansion of characters beyond just sheets and stats.

[BloodOgre]

Just for an example: I've opted to play a Lawful Evil cleric of Helm. My entire modus operendi is to basically create a secret police situation in the city to watch the goings-on and to see if I can elevate myself into a position of power through manipulation of the law. Despite my attempts to really roleplay this out (e.g. paying families a silver or two each week as long as they keep me informed, taking street urchins and teaching them to be spies, trying to foster alliances with some of the higher-ups in the city), it really feels like this is a wasted endeavor for me because the module never expected someone to try this sort of tactic. All it's doing is draining my money more than helping the group out.

Ahhh, I see the problem. Yeah, there isn't much room for "freelancing" in AL. For people who are just getting into it, it's often a good way to start out, and I think it really supports the game stores (keeps people coming in the door). But while many stores have specific nights for AL play, you'll often find a DM or two who are willing to (or already are) run a more freelance campaign either in Faerun or a world of their own.

[BloodOgre]

Haven't finished Season 1 yet; just finished Shadow of Moonsea and trying to avoid spoilers as much as possible. That said, I am absolutely picking up on those recurring elements, though I wouldn't necessarily call them themes, for the season. (I ran the first 3 chapters of HotDQ for the group) That's not too hard. My problem is more in the element that the modules feel too self-contained to allow for expansion of characters beyond just sheets and stats.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I think you might be more interested in PotA. It lends itself to being a bit more free-form. But the book could have been organized better. It is not for an inexperienced DM.

[GreyBlack]

Ahhh, I see the problem. Yeah, there isn't much room for "freelancing" in AL. For people who are just getting into it, it's often a good way to start out, and I think it really supports the game stores (keeps people coming in the door). But while many stores have specific nights for AL play, you'll often find a DM or two who are willing to (or already are) run a more freelance campaign either in Faerun or a world of their own.

Yeah, that's definitely a problem. I mean, we're not in a game store and I don't think the other players really care about getting in on "competitive", as it were, so why we don't just go off rails is kinda bizarre to me, I guess.

Heh. So the DM has spoiled a little bit to me, but if it were me running right now, I'd be fine with the PC's going and doing their own thing, but just keep all the background stuff still happening to the point of the big reveal at the end. But then, I'm known for being something of an "evil" DM who will give you exactly enough rope to hang yourself with. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Unoriginal]

Ehh... I've spoken with him a couple times and he seems pretty married to the model. Admittedly, there are some definite benefits to it (quick quantification of how well known you are by your chosen faction, for example), but myself and one other in the group (ironically, my brother, who has even more TTRPG experience than I do) are both feeling somewhat constrained by the AL model. I'll definitely see if I can broach the topic again with him.

ETA: Just for an example: I've opted to play a Lawful Evil cleric of Helm. My entire modus operendi is to basically create a secret police situation in the city to watch the goings-on and to see if I can elevate myself into a position of power through manipulation of the law. Despite my attempts to really roleplay this out (e.g. paying families a silver or two each week as long as they keep me informed, taking street urchins and teaching them to be spies, trying to foster alliances with some of the higher-ups in the city), it really feels like this is a wasted endeavor for me because the module never expected someone to try this sort of tactic. All it's doing is draining my money more than helping the group out.

Well, given that you're not playing in the AL, I think the issue here is that your DM is following the module to the letter rather than as a "those are events that can happen, but it's not the only stuff that can happen" list.

Of course, the AL is more limited than a regular group, simply because if a player show up for a session, want to start a secret police operation, then never come back, well, it's a lot of time wasted for the other AL players


Yeah, that's definitely a problem. I mean, we're not in a game store and I don't think the other players really care about getting in on "competitive", as it were, so why we don't just go off rails is kinda bizarre to me, I guess.

Heh. So the DM has spoiled a little bit to me, but if it were me running right now, I'd be fine with the PC's going and doing their own thing, but just keep all the background stuff still happening to the point of the big reveal at the end. But then, I'm known for being something of an "evil" DM who will give you exactly enough rope to hang yourself with. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And that's fair.

Note that not all the modules and adventures are that linear, either. Tomb of Annihilation is pretty much "you are here, there is this curse going on, what do you do?", and if I run it (as I'm presently very tempted to do), I'm fairly certain at least one of my players will have their PC try to become the local arena's champion if they have the time, and other things of the same bag.

[GreyBlack]

Well, given that you're not playing in the AL, I think the issue here is that your DM is following the module to the letter rather than as a "those are events that can happen, but it's not the only stuff that can happen" list.

Of course, the AL is more limited than a regular group, simply because if a player show up for a session, want to start a secret police operation, then never come back, well, it's a lot of time wasted for the other AL players

Fair enough. So I guess my problem is less with the AL system and more with the relative inflexibility? Hm.