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Spacehamster
2018-01-09, 03:58 PM
As in the title, is there any current "official" best archery build for high
sustained dpr? :)

Talamare
2018-01-09, 04:00 PM
Doesn't it actively Change depending on Level?

I would personally bet its Valor Bard

Spacehamster
2018-01-09, 04:03 PM
Doesn't it actively Change depending on Level?

I would personally bet its Valor Bard

What makes valor bard great? Couple good archery spells? "only" two attacks and no archery style
tho so dependent on some good MC dips I take it?

Talamare
2018-01-09, 04:05 PM
What makes valor bard great? Couple good archery spells? "only" two attacks and no archery style
tho so dependent on some good MC dips I take it?

Take a Lv of Fighter at 1 for Archery
Steal Ranger's Lv17 spell at Lv10

Easy_Lee
2018-01-09, 04:06 PM
It depends. Generally Ranger (Gloomstalker) 5 / Rogue (Assassin) with Archery, Sharpshooter, and Crossbow Expert does pretty great. And Elven Hexblade archers can Eldritch Smite on their frequent crits and provide their own triple advantage.

Blas_de_Lezo
2018-01-09, 04:24 PM
Many people here always say "Fighter 1/Bard 10" because of extra attack and Magical Secrets to steal's ranger spells. But most of the times that's not true at all. Most people start playing at very low levels, if not at level one. Most campaigns end at level 11-15. So, unless you are starting at level 9 or 10, that character is completely UNPLAYABLE as an archer until high levels. You can have a good character with that planning at lower levels, but it won't be a good DPR archer. Are you going to wait aaaall the levels until 11lv? Come on.

You have to look for a good and FUN DPR archer build at every level single you play. So, if you're going to start from low levels, you have Eldritch Knight, Battlemaster Fighter, Hunter Ranger, or even Assassin Rogue if you want to be a sniper archer.

Spacehamster
2018-01-09, 04:28 PM
What about a ranged Kensai for neat bonus action add of 1d4 to all attacks? :)

Blas_de_Lezo
2018-01-09, 04:33 PM
What about a ranged Kensai for neat bonus action add of 1d4 to all attacks? :)

That's nice too. Effective and fun. And playable at every level, no matter at what level do you start.

Spacehamster
2018-01-09, 05:11 PM
That's nice too. Effective and fun. And playable at every level, no matter at what level do you start.

Thought so too, I would personally build it Kensai to 5, then go gloom stalker 4 and finish off with rest in Kensai. Make it a human variant for mobile feat,take sharpshooter at 4 then rest to max DEX and WIS.

Drayrs
2018-01-09, 05:32 PM
It depends. Generally Ranger (Gloomstalker) 5 / Rogue (Assassin) with Archery, Sharpshooter, and Crossbow Expert does pretty great. And Elven Hexblade archers can Eldritch Smite on their frequent crits and provide their own triple advantage.

Straight Elven Fighter using a hand crossbow and shield with Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter and Elven Accuracy. With party members helping you proc advantage, you do not miss most targets (~86-94% chance to hit most targets of AC 14-16 at level 10 and 18 Dexterity). The extra damage you will achieve at middle levels from Extra Attack (2) outstrips basically anything you can get from other class features, although Gloomstalker and Assassin will allow you to hit incredibly hard on a single target, at the start of combat.

The order you achieve these features is up to you, but it works out well if you take your feats in the order I listed above. I personally find the build boring but if you just want to take your enemies to pound town it works wonders. If you compare this to the Gloomstalker build in terms of efficacy, you need to consider how many rests your party is taking and the average encounter size. If your party is playing stealthily and tends to get the drop on enemies, it will be superior (and is far more flavourful, if that's your thing).

Edit: As an aside, Battle Master is probably the best Martial Archetype for this build. Combat Superiority will give you some needed versatility and extra damage. On the other hand, Champion's Improved Critical is very interesting with Elven Accuracy; your chance of landing a critical hit becomes 27.1% exactly, as opposed to 19% with only Advantage (34.39% if you also take Lucky, like a madman).

Biggstick
2018-01-09, 06:40 PM
I'm not sure if it's the highest DPR build, but one I've always thought of as a pretty solid build is a Stout Hafling with Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter. With extra feats, it's easy enough to also grab Resilient Wisdom and Lucky, as these vastly improve quality of life for the character.

Stout Hafling Battlemaster
Archery Fighting style.
Precision Shot + whatever other flavor you're looking for (My recommendations include Menacing to help allies stay safe and Disarming for obvious reasons).
Level 4 ASI is: Sharpshooter
Level 6 ASI is: Crossbow Expert or +2 Dex
Level 8 ASI is: Crossbow Expert or +2 Dex or Resilient Wisdom (this last one depends on the type of campaign your DM is running. If they're not including things that require you to make Wisdom saving throws, you're fine.)
Level 12 ASI is: Whatever you didn't take at level 8.
Level 14 ASI is: +2 Dex or Lucky.
Level 16 ASI is: Whatever you didn't take at level 14.

At this point, you can grab whatever you'd like for your level 19 ASI, if you even decide to go that far. This is a build that is very defensive, protects you from the Evil DM's who use critical fumble charts, and provides safety nets for you to help with Sharpshooter. The obvious one is Precision Shot, but the second is a little less utilized. The 7th level ability for Battlemaster allows you to ascertain the AC of a creature (relative to your own, but you'll typically have somewhere between 15-17 AC at this point). This information is important when trying to determine whether or not you should use Sharpshooter or not.

Again, this might not be the highest DPR build, but it's one that's built with a little more defensive power for the already strong CE/SS Battlemaster build.

Gardakan
2018-01-09, 07:17 PM
There are plenty builds that are viable. They always come down to about the same DPR.

A level 10 Valor bard with 1 level of fighter can fire 4 attacks from distance.

Then, do you want to pair some sort of Haster/buff with him.

Depending on you I buff at the table I'm playing, the most DPR character is the one with Haste on his back (or the two of them since I'm a Divine Soul Sorcerer).

Crgaston
2018-01-09, 09:38 PM
By archer, do you mean “martial with a bow” or “at-will ranged attacker?” Because if it is the latter, a Scorlock is pretty darned impressive. Especially with Hexblade’s Curse activated. Quickened Eldritch Blast (5.5+5+6=16.5)x8 for 10 rounds. Done from darkness by an elf for triple advantage. Bonus points if you can alternate the pushing/pulling 10’ invocations over Spike Growth for an extra 32d4 per round.

Granted, at Character level 11 it’s slightly less impressive... 14.5x6

And... Quickening all those EB’s is expensive, so it’s not really sustainable the way a Champion Crossbow Expert Sharpshooter is, but it’s still pretty ferocious.

Spacehamster
2018-01-10, 01:55 AM
By archer, do you mean “martial with a bow” or “at-will ranged attacker?” Because if it is the latter, a Scorlock is pretty darned impressive. Especially with Hexblade’s Curse activated. Quickened Eldritch Blast (5.5+5+6=16.5)x8 for 10 rounds. Done from darkness by an elf for triple advantage. Bonus points if you can alternate the pushing/pulling 10’ invocations over Spike Growth for an extra 32d4 per round.

Granted, at Character level 11 it’s slightly less impressive... 14.5x6

And... Quickening all those EB’s is expensive, so it’s not really sustainable the way a Champion Crossbow Expert Sharpshooter is, but it’s still pretty ferocious.

Archer as in pew pew with arrows. :)

Godshoe
2018-01-10, 03:53 AM
Archer as in pew pew with arrows. :)
Mhah, I really like this "pew-pew" definition. You can fluff yours eldritch blasts as arrows and be real Legolas with sorlock pew-pews.

BobZan
2018-01-10, 07:04 AM
Yeah, I like to mix Martials with Casters!

---
What about the Divine Archer?

V. Human -> Sharpshooter
Go Fighter 1 -> War Cleric 6 -> Battlemaster Fighter 6 -> Cleric 9 -> Fighter 9

You have neat precision from Cleric Channel Divinity + Battlemaster Precision.

Can do Wis/bonus attack, Spiritual Weapon.

Have a lot of cool spells.

---
What about the 'Arcane Archer'?

V.Human -> Sharpshooter
Go Fighter 1 -> Divine Sorc 5 -> Battlemaster 6 -> Sorc 9 -> Fighter 11

Now we're cooking. Quicken Bless? Yes please. Quicken Haste? Cool!

All fun stuff you can do with metamagic and divine spells (Divine Metamagic??).

---
What about the 'Support Archer'?

V.Human -> Healer or Sharpshooter

Celestial Warlock x with Blade Pact!

1+LV/LR Heals on bonus action (useful to wake up unconscious friends), 2 spells/rest, extra attack and ranged smite by lv 5. Healer feat so you don't have to use your spells for heals.

Mortis_Elrod
2018-01-10, 08:17 AM
Well... Revised Ranger Gloomstalker 6/ Rogue Assasin 3/Fighter 11 is gonna be pretty good for sustained DPR. Elf for eleven accuracy, then pick your favorite fighter. Personally I like the Battlemaster here for more variety and a bit of extra damage. Other archetypes work well though.


Edit: replace rogue with whispers Bard (I know mad but here me out) you get same extra damage only psychic and you don’t need advantage. You also get Catnap as a spell which means that you get a free short rest after a battle. With some quick maths against a greater favored enemy assuming hit all attacks and have sharpshooter and using all superiority dice with a hunters mark on Biggest HP bag you can find....you avg 257.5 damage that first round. On subsequent round you still do about 88 average damage.

If you want nova then Hexblade Archers are what you want. I think my current favorite is... Hexblade 12/Arcane Archer 3/ Whispers Bard 5. Goal here is to use Smites with warlock slots combined with Arcane shots and Psychic Blades. Still functions as a spellcaster, works almost just as well in melee. You still got Bard levels and BI to help with using other spells in combat too.

Tiefling or Half elf is obvious first choice of race here . you function more than just a burst archer outside of combat and can be a really good Face or anything else really. Make sure to Smite on the last attack, prone will cancel any advantage or cause disadvantage, spreading out your burst between attacks could mean better efficiency, espescially with multiple enemies. If it’s a single target then Psychic blades and Arcane shot on first hit and last hit Eldritch smite for finisher.

sightlessrealit
2018-01-10, 08:34 AM
Elf Samurai Fighter with Elvan Accuracy so you have super advantage dice. Coupled with Sharpshooter. Throw in Gloom Stalker Ranger for more shots.

Specter
2018-01-10, 08:49 AM
It depends whether we're talking about sustained, nova or hordes.

Sustained, I'm guessing Champion 5/Rogue X. Nova, probably Assassin/Warlock with the bow smite invocation. Hordes, Ranger.

Rhedyn
2018-01-10, 08:56 AM
For core:

Vhuman Battlemaster 9. Grab sharpshooter, 20 Dex, and crossbow expert.

With Precision Attack turn near misses into hits. Have your Bard or druid Ally cast faerie fire.

You don't need any levels after 9. But extra attacks and another action surge make staying fighter worth it.

Spiritchaser
2018-01-10, 09:29 AM
I don’t know about Max dps, but I’ll throw a vote on F1 Kensei X

Really versatile sustained ranged damage, and with archery, sharpen, and sharpshooter, you are pretty solid. Throw in monk mobility and durability and you’re in good shape

If you somehow make it to monk 18 (l 19 for you) and took Elven Accuracy, you find yourself with at will triple advantage, +2 from archery and +3 from sharpen

That’s an 87.5% chance to hit AC 22 WITH the -5/+10

What? Things that have AC 22 can see invisible foes?

Not 600 ft away they can’t.

Mikal
2018-01-10, 09:38 AM
I wonder how a Brute Kensei archer Rogue would work.
Bow Damage+Dex+Sharpshooter+Kensei 1d4+Brute 1d4-1d8 depending on level for three attacks and action surge.
Add magic initiate for hex or hunter's mark for an additional 1d6 damage.

Probably go with Fighter 12/Kensei 4/Rogue 4 if you wanted to preserve Feat/ASIs or Fighter 11/Kensei 4/Rogue 5 for extra damage.
Fighter 12/Kensei 4/Rogue 4 with Magic Initiate gets 1d8+1d4+1d6+1d6+Dex+10 for three attacks and an additional +2d6 on a single attack, or 87 average damage if all hit at level 20.
With Fighter 11 and Rogue 5 instead it's 1d8+1d4+1d6+1d6+Dex+10 for three attacks and an additional +3d6 on a single attack or, 90.5 average damage if all hit at level 20.

Of course, you only get one of those 1d6s once per day for an hour, but still useful (unless you take Magic Initiate Twice, once for Hunter's Mark, once for Hex). Doesn't count any additional damage from Magic Bows and ammo, so up to an additional +6 damage per hit.

Alternatively, could try a Fighter 11/Kensei 4/Hexblade 5. That gives you the 1d6 from Hex much more reliably, and you also gain access to Eldritch Smite with 3rd level spell slots.
You lose out on average damage without resources, but gain a little flexibility with Warlock spells and from Hexblade Curse.

Spacehamster
2018-01-10, 04:42 PM
Battle master 12 Kensai 4 gloom stalker 4 would be pretty neat, four attacks with 1d8 + 1d6(hunters mark) + 5 + 10 on first round, following rounds are three attacks with 1d8 + 1d4 + 1d6 + 5 + 10, plus the possibility to burn superiority die and action surge ofc.

Drayrs
2018-01-10, 04:50 PM
One of the problems with most of the multi-class builds is that they do not match the progression of a pure Fighter with the accompanying feats; at level 11, and 18 Dexterity, you are looking at 4 attacks a round at 18.25 damage per hit (assuming using a Superiority die once every 2 turns). You have about a 90% chance to hit on each attack, so in total your DPR is 90% * (73) = 66, consistently, across every encounter from long rest to long rest. Your first turn or burst damage can be stellar with other builds, but I would be surprised if you can match that sustained damage output with any other build. The one thing holding it back is that it does not benefit very much from critical hits.

The question I suppose is should you compare these builds level by level, or simply by what they can achieve at level 20?

TheUser
2018-01-10, 05:23 PM
Human Variant Gloom Stalker 5/Rogue X

Always has advantage in the dark and +2 to hit is pretty fierce. 3 attacks a round at level 5 and sharpshooter means you can afford to take the -5 to hit chance with all that easy advantage.

Consistently shells out the deeps, covers the biggest weakness humans have which is lack of darkvision.

Instead of spiking damage at intervals the way a fighter would at level 11 it gets smooth and consistent bumps. It also has a bunch of utility from ranger spells.

Perfect scout with +10 stealth from Pass with out trace + double proficiency from expertise.

If you take the new inquisitive subclass you can also keep blasting out sneak attacks without advantage.

Pretty solid combo imho.

Drayrs
2018-01-10, 05:44 PM
I prefer the Gloom Stalker builds if only because they bring more to the table than a shoot-and-forget character. Hunter's Mark (and Sneak Attack at later levels) should also allow them to over-damage a Fighter up to level 10.

Tikkun
2018-01-10, 09:46 PM
Or you could try as many levels in battlemaster fighter you like and add 3 levels in Warlock for Pact of the Blade and the Improved Pact Weapon invocation which gives you a magic weapon with +1 to damage and attack rolls. The reality is, that at some point in time, you will need a magic weapon to inflict damage or you will be mostly firing blanks. Warlocks get it faster then Kensei. And will allow you to use the Darkness/Devil's Sight cheese a few times also.

TheUser
2018-01-10, 10:56 PM
Or you could try as many levels in battlemaster fighter you like and add 3 levels in Warlock for Pact of the Blade and the Improved Pact Weapon invocation which gives you a magic weapon with +1 to damage and attack rolls. The reality is, that at some point in time, you will need a magic weapon to inflict damage or you will be mostly firing blanks. Warlocks get it faster then Kensei. And will allow you to use the Darkness/Devil's Sight cheese a few times also.

If you want a magic weapon just break bounded accuracy: Human Variant Crossbow Expert Fighter 1/Devotion Paladin 5

Throw down your magic weapon once per short rest and get another +3 to hit.

2+3+3+3 to hit
(archery fighting style, dex, proficiency, charisma)

even if you sharp shooter you're still attacking at +6 *snort*

Just start splashing Rogue Levels after that and you'll be set ;)

Zene
2018-01-10, 11:03 PM
Greatly depends on level, and whether you’re using UA.

At 20, without UA, my money’s on wood elf champion with elven accuracy, crossbow expert, sharpshooter, lucky, maxed dex, crossbow +3, bolts +3, cloak of invisibility, helm of brilliance, with a squire (or multiple) to coat your bolts in poison and hand them to you as-needed.

At 10 it’s probably valor bard.

At 1 it’s probably vhuman crossbow expert fighter.

At various other levels it’s probably hexblade, ranger, or rogue.

Kane0
2018-01-10, 11:26 PM
It's heavily level dependent and your secondary concerns like mobility, surivivability, melee effectiveness and skill/utility change the options a lot too.

Barbarian, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Sorcerer, Wizard: Not great

Bard: Valor can steal the best archery spells plus get extra attack and the like.

Fighter: There is literally an Arcane Archer subclass, but Battlemaster and Champion are also good choices. Dip friendly and the most reliable with archery fighting style, extra ASIs for feats and dex, and 3-4 attacks beyond level 11.

Monk: Kensai get to use their Ki for weapon stuff and specifically calls out longbows as an option, plus all the monk defensive/mobility goodness

Ranger: Archery spells, fighting style and 2-3 subclasses that are good for archery. Just be careful of how many options for your bonus action you pile on. Dip friendly

Rogue: Competitive damage with single shots and plenty of maneuverability and skill utility. Also pretty tough to kill. Dip friendly

Warlock: Hexblade + Blade pact is a lovely package but very reliant on short rests. Also dip friendly, though some of the nice stuff is gated until later levels

End of the day a multiclass is probably going to be the 'best' no matter your metric, but how that multiclass breaks down depends on what you prioritize specifically.