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Verbannon
2018-01-09, 06:48 PM
[skill challenge] What would be the stages of a law and order type proceeding with a guilty party?

Okay so I have run into, for the first time ever, something I have no idea how to do.

Note, The following is a simplified version of the actual events, since its taking place in a floating Marid ruled city within the elemental chaos. But as thats not important I'm going to describe the events using common terms.

So I am running a newish party and I haven't managed to break all of them out of their hack and slash mindset yet. And well the party's ship got sabotaged, they attacked the saboteurs who had managed to hire an iron dragon. The saboteurs were poor farmers and the party didn't really ask why they were attacked. They just killed the dragon and farmers. The local law passed them by declaring this to be self defense. Joy. The party decided to split up, the diplomatic half going to do some discussing with a local noble and the other half to look for the dragon's lair, found it still being dug out by the farmers. The party decided to kill the farmers digging out the lair by setting fire to the lair entrance and to trap the farmers inside then kill them with ranged attacks.

The one who did most of this had a character he described as "a sensitive intellectual who cares about right and wrong and helping others"

Anyway the local law decided this was not self defense and the party turned themselves in not wanting to be fugitives though they did not admit to it. Anyway I asked wtf they were thinking ooc. And was told they assumed all the farmers were evil since they had been attacked by some of the farmers. I explained the farmers were subsistence, poor ect and had tried to form their own guild so as to increase their wages. And had just enough support in the government to get their guild license when the party ruined it by completing a quest paid for by the opposing government forces. Which is why the farmers tried destroying the party ship, to reawaken the opposing group's hand. And the farmers considered the party the evil stooges of the warmongering bureaucrats keeping the farmers down.

And all of the ones involved in the murder seemed to be pretty shocked that the farmers had actual motivations. So now I have half the party about to be arrayed on mass murder charges and executed and the other half outside. Now my solution to get them out of this is debt. I plan to have one of the friendlier nobles, a noble the party is already in debt to, pay to have all the farmers rezzed and just put the party into deeper debt with the noble. But thats the get out of jail free card. Before that happens I want to have the party run a skill challenge where they try to make amends and defend themselves first.

But I'm not really sure how to do this, the main thing I'm lacking is the correct stages.

As a note the city legal system itself is lawful good.

So far I have as a rough format.

stage 1. Pretrial: The party members outside try to play politics and gain favor. The party members inside maybe do the same thing somehow?

Stage 2. Trial: Lots of diplomacy checks to plead their case?

Yeah I got nothing. I would think all the legal dramas I have read would help me. But here the party actually is guilty so there is no evidence collecting to do. Just deal making or lying. And some members of my party, all of whom are good aligned want to frame a noble they dislike for it. Since they decided hey, there are no witnesses to say otherwise.

So I could use some advice on additional stages and what would be done in each stage. Once I get the basic structure down I want to add some more politics to it. With the party being forced associated with the anti-farmers faction and the anti-farmers faction trying to distance themselves from the party.

Verbannon
2018-01-09, 07:06 PM
The more I think about it the more I think maybe this isn't a skill challenge situation. Maybe its a "hand the party a bunch of choices and let them chose which one they feel is least sucky" situation.

dps
2018-01-09, 07:16 PM
The only thing that comes to me off-hand would be if the local law system uses trial by combat, let the accused battle it out with the governments champions. (Trial by combat might not really match up to modern ideas of justice, but isn't inherently something that a lawful good government in a pseudo-medieval setting wouldn't do. I guess you could also go with trial by ordeal. Actually, that might be better; you could customize each "ordeal' for each defendant.)

Thrudd
2018-01-09, 07:18 PM
Keep it simple. Have them each brought up to testify and plead their case, individually. Each one rolls their charisma/whatever skill you think is appropriate based on what they choose to say (lie or truth). Assign a secret DC to each judge or juror, whoever is passing judgment. If their roll beats enough judge dc's, they get off with lightest possible (whatever makes sense for that to be, the fine maybe). If they fail all of them, execution it is. In between, decide on somewhere between a fine and death for their punishment.

It probably makes more sense for there to be one spokesperson for the whole party, but that's your call if you want this thing to go on longer. If any PCs have a chance to secretly approach or bribe any judges, their DC for judgment will be lowered according to how good the bribe is (maybe also with a roll if some kind).

Basically, I'd get it over with pretty quickly. Get past the boring and back to the action (unless you and your players are a bunch of lawyers and love arguing court cases).

Verbannon
2018-01-09, 07:24 PM
Using the suggestions in this thread. I am thinking about giving them this choice.


Choice A. Warmongerer noble offers to have the party freed completely free of charge as long as they swear allegiance to her. She sees them as a potential valuable resource. This however would make the party permanent enemies of Farmer Noble and lose their friendship with Friendly Noble they owe their debt to.

Choice B. Farmer Friendly Noble explains the political situation and offers forgiveness to the party in return for apologies and reparations and a guilty plea. This guilty plea would make a permanent enemy of Warmongerer Noble.

Choice C. Friendly Noble offers to pay for the resurrection of the farmers, as a loan of course.And in return he would let the party beat their accusations through a trial by ordeal.

Choice D. The Party goes through with the regular trial, a group check instead of a skill challenge with a scaling penalty. That could range from a light sentence to execution.


Main thing is though I would have to do this before the session so I could prepare the ordeal if they choose Choice C.

Nifft
2018-01-09, 08:12 PM
In my games, D&D "justice" tends to be split between two very distinct formats:


- Frontier Justice, whereby a "lawman" (e.g. a Paladin, who probably isn't a 'man' since race and gender are all well-represented) walks around and dispenses the local ruler's justice. Based around investigation and magical detection, errs on the side of the lawman's intuition, and on "common law" compromises for civil matters.

Status allows you to appeal, and high enough status might get you an escalation to Courtly Justice instead.

Otherwise, it's summary verdicts, up to and including executions.


- Courtly Justice, wherein a ruler (up to and including the Emperor or Queen) hears arguments and testimony, then rules for one side or the other. For a criminal case or a civil case where flight risk exists, jail

Money and status matter. Appeals are expensive, and for cases of a certain status, they're expected. This is where lawyers do their thing.