Sooo... not sure to continue a character...?

[BlueFountain]

I'm in my first campaign, and I feel slightly in a bind here. We've gotten through our first adventure but during it one of the characters (our Rogue) was constantly arguing with my character and another over just the stupidest things. The Rogue also threatened my character a few times. And when we got back (for reasons I won't go into detail) the leader of our Guild Hall attacked/arrested one of our party members. As my character ran in to stop said Guild Hall leader, the Rogue tried to stab me in the back (albeit failed).

Well that was 2+ sessions ago, with the group splitting afterwards doing various things (including the one char to jail). Last session time skipped three weeks to the jailed char's hearing and they were let off, and then the session ended with the guild leader assigning all our characters to a new mission together. My char protested a bit not being able to trust the Rogue, and the guild leader (and kinda GM I think really) just said "Well, you're going anyways."

Basically, I'm not certain what to do. It would be in my character to just walk away and not partake in that mission. And I do have a back up character already made up and have discussed with the GM various ways to possibly bring them in (albeit, the reason I made the backup char was expecting different results from the hearing to happen). I of course don't want to quit this game, but I'm just having a hard time seeing my character continuing this journey with someone who has argued so much, threatened, and attempted to back-stab me.

[Kane0]

Have you had a chat with that player too?

If you're happy to change out characters (peacefully if at all possible) then there's nothing wrong with that, but it would be in your own best interests to make sure this doesn't just happen all over again with a new character.

[Malifice]

I'm in my first campaign, and I feel slightly in a bind here. We've gotten through our first adventure but during it one of the characters (our Rogue) was constantly arguing with my character and another over just the stupidest things. The Rogue also threatened my character a few times. And when we got back (for reasons I won't go into detail) the leader of our Guild Hall attacked/arrested one of our party members. As my character ran in to stop said Guild Hall leader, the Rogue tried to stab me in the back (albeit failed).

Well that was 2+ sessions ago, with the group splitting afterwards doing various things (including the one char to jail). Last session time skipped three weeks to the jailed char's hearing and they were let off, and then the session ended with the guild leader assigning all our characters to a new mission together. My char protested a bit not being able to trust the Rogue, and the guild leader (and kinda GM I think really) just said "Well, you're going anyways."

Basically, I'm not certain what to do. It would be in my character to just walk away and not partake in that mission. And I do have a back up character already made up and have discussed with the GM various ways to possibly bring them in (albeit, the reason I made the backup char was expecting different results from the hearing to happen). I of course don't want to quit this game, but I'm just having a hard time seeing my character continuing this journey with someone who has argued so much, threatened, and attempted to back-stab me.

He's just going to argue, threaten, and attempt to back-stab your next character.

Problem is the player (and DM), not the character.

[Kane0]

Aww c'mon Mal, good impressions for the new guy eh?

[Arkhios]

He's just going to argue, threaten, and attempt to back-stab your next character.

Problem is the player (and DM), not the character.

Why so passive-aggressive lately?

[MxKit]

Why so passive-aggressive lately?

I'd call that active-aggressive rather than passive-aggressive, personally. :smallwink:

That said, while stated strongly, I don't think Malifice is really wrong. Kane stated it more diplomatically, but the fact is, if there's not player buy-in from the rest of the party, one player shouldn't be going out of their way to be disruptive and push for inter-party conflict. One player definitely shouldn't be trying to attack other players' characters/kill them off unless everyone is on the same page and okay with that. And the DM should probably have put a stop to it before now.

Personally, I echo Kane and would recommend approaching the player before making your final decision. Ask if they'll stop doing that stuff, because it's making it hard to have fun playing this character, or at least ask them not to do the same thing with your next character because the way they treated that one made it hard to enjoy playing him.

If the player refuses or mocks you or agrees at first but then starts up the exact same thing again, go to the DM. Ask him to get the player to stop, again because it's interfering with your ability to have fun playing. If the DM refuses or mocks you or half-ass agrees but never does speak to the player or just goes "oh well I asked him to but he won't, nothing I can do, just deal with it," these are not people worth playing with.

[Malifice]

Why so passive-aggressive lately?

Im not having a go at the OP. Im suggesting (stating) that the Rogue player is a douche.

The OP is considering changing his character due to the douche actions of another player. That's whats happening here.

I dont think the OP changing his character is going to help. I dont think the OP should change his character based on another player being a tool. I think talking to the other player is a better option.

The DM should also chat to the Rogues player. If he doesnt cut out the arguin, backstabbing and other shenanigans, the DM should promptly uninvite that player from the game, and the OP can continue in peace.

[Camman1984]

This can work, a lot of people go down the 'i want to betray the party' route because they enjoy being the sneaky little rebel.

Let them do that, watch your back and befriend the rest if the party so if he does ever try to kill you (in my experience these guys don't go through with it) he is factoring a 4v1 situation in.

If he still does it and either
a. keeps attacking once you are down, making a clear meta game attempt for failed death saves
b. has a strop that the rest of the party defends you and kills him
..then you have a douchebag player and the only option is trying to remove him or unfortunately yourself from the situation.

I am currently playing an evil rogue in a neutral-good party. they know they can't trust her completely and she has almost come to blows when she has to convince them she hadn't sworn allegiance to an evil npc (one that doesn't affect main plot). but we are roleplayers so this is just a bit of party and character depth in our eyes. as long as she keeps being the 'belkar' of the group the tolerate her more evil personality traits

[BlueFountain]

We've been doing the RP in roll 20 online. A lot of char interactions (and all the arguing) have happened in the text chat and not over voice. I know our GM has stated a few times "Wait, what is going on in chat now? I'll have to read that later..." but I'm not certain if they ever have gone back to reread the chats.

And it's at least partly in character. I can't say about often arguing over stupid little things, but the attempted stabbing me in the back with a dagger was done because my character (again to stick up for another party member) interrupted and got in the way of the Guild Leader and the Rogue's thought was "I'd impress the Guild Leader if I stop them".

Do I think the Rogue will try again to attack me, much less kill me? OOC wise probably not (beyond more arguing over small things), but IC wise my character has no reason to trust them currently. And as noted, I find my char continuing with said Rogue unlikely and if they did they'd definitely be watchful of the Rogue or possibly even take a chance to attack the Rogue (probably not go that far, but my char is True Neutral so could be counted as killing for survival).

[Sigreid]

I'd consider making a new character and seeing if the issues persist. It may just not be the right group for you.

[Malifice]

We've been doing the RP in roll 20 online. A lot of char interactions (and all the arguing) have happened in the text chat and not over voice. I know our GM has stated a few times "Wait, what is going on in chat now? I'll have to read that later..." but I'm not certain if they ever have gone back to reread the chats.

And it's at least partly in character. I can't say about often arguing over stupid little things, but the attempted stabbing me in the back with a dagger was done because my character (again to stick up for another party member) interrupted and got in the way of the Guild Leader and the Rogue's thought was "I'd impress the Guild Leader if I stop them".

Do I think the Rogue will try again to attack me, much less kill me? OOC wise probably not (beyond more arguing over small things), but IC wise my character has no reason to trust them currently. And as noted, I find my char continuing with said Rogue unlikely and if they did they'd definitely be watchful of the Rogue or possibly even take a chance to attack the Rogue (probably not go that far, but my char is True Neutral so could be counted as killing for survival).

Are you (your PC) aware he tried to murder you?

[NecessaryWeevil]

Do I think the Rogue will try again to attack me, much less kill me? OOC wise probably not (beyond more arguing over small things), but IC wise my character has no reason to trust them currently. And as noted, I find my char continuing with said Rogue unlikely and if they did they'd definitely be watchful of the Rogue or possibly even take a chance to attack the Rogue (probably not go that far, but my char is True Neutral so could be counted as killing for survival).

Man, based on my own experience and this, if the next Roll20 game I get into has a rogue, I'm just going to say NOPE.

Anyway. OOC you don't think he'll attack your PC again. OOC, is it ruining or threatening to ruin your fun? If not, well, you play your character. You can find a reason for your PC to stick around, if you want to.

[BlueFountain]

NecessaryWeevil - had similar dealings with rogues?

Malifice - Considering I was able to see the dagger and dodge out of the way, yes.

I'm still uncertain, but at this moment I am pondering at least for the time being trying to keep going with the char. They were getting pretty close to to the Druid (the other char the Rogue argued with more than even my char) so I guess it would make sense to on those aspects. At the same time this weekend I'm going to try and finish up my second character just to be set if it's needed. I've also talked a bit with the GM (btw, is it GM or DM?) on not being sure of continuing the char and possible ways to bring in my second, though they haven't responded back to my last message in regards to it. GM hasn't stated it directly, but the vibe I am getting is they want me to continue with the current char.

[Kane0]

Let us know how it goes! I'd advise on having some sort of plan for dealing with the rogue if things go pear shaped, if he's in the bad books with other characters speak to them too. You might get lucky and be able to just kick him out of the party (in game) instead of deciding to leave yourself.

Also
GM: Game Master
DM: Dungeon Master
Both are correct, DM is D&D-specific

[Mongobear]

Nuclear Option

Reroll, but make a character specifically designed to murder him as fast as possible if he so chooses to pull this again. Conquest Paladin to shut him down, then Divine Smite the ever loving crap out of his assumingly lowish HP, Bearbarian to just tank his attacks and grapple him into submission before stabbing him repeatedly, or my personal favorite, whichever Bard gets Cutting Words and their disadvantage Cantrip and just insult him in character endlessly, while giving him constant disadvantage on everything. Maybe dip Sorcerer with this for Subtle Spell so you can claim it wasn't you, or use other action denial spells like Web, Entangle, or Evards and "accidentally" catch him in the area.

[FabulousFizban]

problem is the back-stabber, not you. Tell him to cut his **** or you'll pack it in.

[Temperjoke]

The real problem is your DM doesn't seem able to keep control of the game, if he's missing stuff in chat and has to go back later. He might not even realize what's going on. I mean, don't get me wrong, from what you're describing the Rogue is a jerk too, but it's the DM's job to manage the situation and ensure that players are enjoying themselves, not letting a player's character get randomly attacked by another character. Talk to your DM and explain what's going on, and if he blows you off or does nothing, don't roll another character just walk away, cause it's not going to get better.

[Asmotherion]

Let's break it down a bit;

-You all belong to a Guild.

-Your Character and Rogue had some in-Game arguements.

-An other party member (for conviniance sake let's call him Bob) gets in trouble with the Guildmaster.

-Guildmaster orders Bob arrested.

-You step in to cover for Bob, possibly asking for the rest of your party to do the same, to help Bob escape.

-Rogue stabs you in the back, and this results in Bob being captured, the party spliting, and Rogue staying faithful and in favor with the Guildmaster.

The way I see it, the RP concept is, everything went as it would go, if Rogue was a Neutral Evil or Lawful Evil character (Lawful to the big boss), and you were Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral. The Boss could have any alignment in this concept, as his authority was questioned but probably has a Lawful and non-good Alignment.

Now, from now on, you can either get away from the group, find a way to get back at the rogue, or (if of a good alignment) try to find a retributive quality to this person, and work with him. On the other hand, the very guild might become your target/enemy (as it was it's boss that started the whole missunderstanding), and you may try to convince the other PCs that they might want to reconsider working for it as soon as you leave town, or convince them to work against it for revenge. Bob may be more willing to do so than the Rogue though, and this is were the New party Make Up will take place :P

PS: When I DM, I let high player agency, so that my players may decide who they work for/with. If a group of players is non functional, I have Deus Ex Machina to make them work their diferances, bringing them together by fate, or trapping them together in a ruin, a vision etc. There are a lot of ways to make things work, but if things end up not working at all, a death may be the only solution; That's somthing for the DM to decide though.

PS2: The above is about PC concepts and RP. If Players deliberatelly annoy each other, a DM should just kick them out of their table :P

[JoyfulJester]

Continue with your character, find some leverage in game like kidnap his sister and put her in a secure location and tell him that if he betrays you again she dies. You know, leverage.

[BlueFountain]

Kane – thanks, I keep jumping back and forth and wasn’t sure if I really should use one or the other.

Dang Monobear, that seems a bit extreme. Though I nearly made my backup a Barbarian. Ended up with Fighter.

Asmotherion – Yep, you pretty much nailed it. And yes, as I’m sticking to the party (for now at least) I do think I’ll try to chat with the druid (the one nearly arrested and who the rogue also has argued with) on such things. I also think (or hope) that PS #1 is what my DM is going with. The party was falling apart after the arrest of the druid. The last session they ended up pulling some kinda deus ex stuff to get her out of serving an actual sentence and then keep the party together (like the guild leader just ignoring my char’s complaints and notes of the Rogue’s threats and attempt). And I dunno what they have planned… I just hope it’s not a simple DM keeping the group together because it’s the group.

[Mongobear]

Dang Monobear, that seems a bit extreme. Though I nearly made my backup a Barbarian. Ended up with Fighter.


I didn't use the term "Nuclear Option" lightly.

Depending on your level and choice of archetype, Fighter can screw with the Rogue pretty well too, BM for trip/disarm shennanigans, Cavalier for pseudo Sentinel, so he can never escape from you if you hit him with an OA, combine with actual Sentinel for hilarity, especially with PAM.

[NecessaryWeevil]

NecessaryWeevil - had similar dealings with rogues?


Yep. I can recall playing with 5 PC rogues in the last 7 years. The first one stole fuel from our airship to enrich himself on the side. The second, fourth and fifth ones had the mindset, "If I see it first, it's mine. If I touch it first, it's mine. If you let me hold it until it's time to divvy up the loot, it's mine. If I see it and you don't, it never existed.

The fifth one tacked on, "If you insist on sharing it equally once you've caught me trying to hoard it, I'll destroy it first."

The third one was just fine. It was also the only one played by a fellow member of a stable gaming group, as opposed to a stranger.

[LaserFace]

From what you're telling us, I'm not convinced your character is the source of the problem.

D&D is a team game, and there shouldn't be this kind of infighting unless it was discussed beforehand. There shouldn't be another PC trying to kill yours, and the DM shouldn't be sitting by while it happens. Ideally there is a "Session Zero" where, before real play begins, everyone at the table can have a discussion of what they like, what they want to play, and how they want to interact with everyone. If you don't do that, you end up with some idiot attacking his own teammates "because it's what my character would do!" and a lot of garbage like that.

Talk to the DM about the Rogue player. Explain how it makes you feel and how it gets in the way of having a good time. Then, maybe consider talking to the Rogue player and get a sense of why they're behaving like this. Get opinions from other players, too. Everyone should be on the same page, as far as party expectations go.

[Sariel Vailo]

Nuclear Option

Reroll, but make a character specifically designed to murder him as fast as possible if he so chooses to pull this again. Conquest Paladin to shut him down, then Divine Smite the ever loving crap out of his assumingly lowish HP, Bearbarian to just tank his attacks and grapple him into submission before stabbing him repeatedly, or my personal favorite, whichever Bard gets Cutting Words and their disadvantage Cantrip and just insult him in character endlessly, while giving him constant disadvantage on everything. Maybe dip Sorcerer with this for Subtle Spell so you can claim it wasn't you, or use other action denial spells like Web, Entangle, or Evards and "accidentally" catch him in the area.

Your my hero

[Kane0]

Forgot the 'once you've killed him, drop mike and leave' part though.

[BlueFountain]

So just got done with the next game. It started with the Rogue, our Paladin, and the Druid having a drinking contest. Rogue and Paladin lost, and ended up cuddling in their drunkenness. Rogue's response upon waking was to stab the Paladin three times (only one hit). Later at breakfast, the Paladin states what happens, the Rogue tries to deny it, the Druid uses Perception and realizes the Rogue is lying and calls them on it. Rogue's response was to throw a dagger at the Druid.

Luckily my Monk was sitting right by the druid and used Deflect Missile and caught it throwing it back at the Rogue hitting them. I was about to run over and attack but the Paladin and Druid held me back mainly for the Rogue was specifically requested for our current quest and "no rogue=no quest".

The rest of the game went... okay? The Rogue kept trying to bark orders though and yelling at people to listen, while me and the Druid kept yelling back there was no reason to.

But yeah, I don't have doubt after today's session that if I changed chars this behavior won't stop. Rogue's response to just about everything is "stab it". Only real saving benefit I'd get from my back up character is her personality would maybe deal with the Rogue better, and be slower to take offense to the things the Rogue says.

I let the DM kwow via PMs that the Druid is currently the only reason my char is still there, but that I don't see mine sticking around with how the Rogue behaves even for the druid being there. Their response was "understandable" and "it's hard to control any of you". I also noted (yet to get a response on this one, think DM went to sleep) that if the Rogue attacks one more party member next game my char is leaving. Possibly after attacking the Rogue.
-----------------------------------------
The group (not including DM) is also currently discussing this. So far the Rogue's player is mainly "Well they don't trust anyone", that they "love that the characters hate each other" (which they don't, the Paladin annoys us, and they hate the Rogue, that's it), and other things along the line.

EDIT: More reasons from the Rogue. "Well they're a group of strangers" despite them having done like a 4 month mission together before starting this second mission. Trying to downplay all the negative actions they've done (not just the stabbing and attacks, but others too). Trying to put blame on the other characters (like our Paladin picking up a bear cub in our first session to start an attack by bears). Continuing that "Oh yeah, stabbing even their work partners is a character-appropriate reaction" and... I mean who thinks that? You may not like your teammates but who actively tries to make enemies of them like this?

EDIT 2: More arguing regarding char intereaction. After enough time (its been... 45 minutes now of this?) and noting how my char is being stifled and that I'm not fully in control (as I feel I can't just leave the party, but also don't feel like I can't just attack when both are high options of what my char would probably do in response) and getting mostly backup from the Druid and Paladin's players I think the Rogue's player is starting to see the issue. So hopefully next session will work better.

And I mean I've RPed online via text chatroom/forums before so while this is my first table top/D&D its not my first RP. I get that drama and conflict make things more interesting but this has been too much.

[Kane0]

The correct course of action is for the party to tie the rogue up in his sleep, smear honey over him and leave him lying on a fire ant nest. Or hang him and some fresh meat from a tree in the woods.

He's nothing but trouble. Psychopathic, bloodthirsty trouble.

Edit: The rogue deserves no plot armor by the way, his actions need to have consequences. Both the player and DM need to learn that.

[BlueFountain]

The correct course of action is for the party to tie the rogue up in his sleep, smear honey over him and leave him lying on a fire ant nest. Or hang him and some fresh meat from a tree in the woods.

He's nothing but trouble. Psychopathic, bloodthirsty trouble.

Edit: The rogue deserves no plot armor by the way, his actions need to have consequences. Both the player and DM need to learn that.

If you didn't notice, I added two Edits to add in more info as discussions went after game with the Rogue which to sum up though means they'll probably tone things done. Hopefully...

And yeah, crappy plot armor (I did say in char "Well if the Rogue were to die and we showed up just saying she died along the way, we could still probably have the mission if that's what you're worried about"). Sadly this quest specifically requiring the Rogue (as well as a side quest that dealt with the Druid) was the GM's way of keeping the party together in the first place which I won't get into at least right now.

[Arkhios]

Continuing that "Oh yeah, stabbing even their work partners is a character-appropriate reaction" and... I mean who thinks that? You may not like your teammates but who actively tries to make enemies of them like this?

Sounds a lot like narcissism. Either the Rogue's player is an actual narcissist or he/she plays the character like that intentionally.

Judging from what else you've told about the Rogue's player, however, I'm afraid that he or she might actually be a narcissist.

A narcissist constantly "stabs" other people around them and sees nothing wrong in their actions.

The key defining features of this personality disorder are a long-term pattern of abnormal behavior characterized by exaggerated feelings of self-importance, an excessive need for admiration, and a lack of understanding of others' feelings.
People affected by it often spend a lot of time thinking about achieving power or success, or about their appearance. They often take advantage of the people around them (a.k.a. are willing to "stab" even their co-workers if they believe it's beneficial for themselves).

(Emphasis to draw focus on what I find alarming in this case)

[Kane0]

Well its your call on how you want to proceed. Every party member is justified in attacking the rogue and/or leaving, that quest must be super important to stop you from dumping or killing the guy that you are supposed to work with but instead has deceived and used lethal force on all of you over petty misunderstandings or disagreements.

Its fairly clear that the DM is either apathetic to or encouraging this behaviour, and the rogue player is aware of his impact on others and has no intent on stopping. If neither can be reasoned with you just need to deal with the rogue (peacefully or no) or leave the table.

Edit: or alternarively, bestow upon him the greatest insult: to be ignored.

[Sigreid]

Could point out to the rogue player that unless their character has a wisdom of 3 they should recognize that it's not a good idea to intentionally antagonize the trained professional killers they are travelling and working with.

If I were the druid I would at the very least not heal the rogue.

[Beelzebubba]

Nothing wrong with forcing the issue - the game sounds pretty bad right now, so it's probably OK if it blows up. There are way too many good DMs and good games out there to waste time with some group that makes you want to change your character.

I'd coordinate with the other characters to tell the DM his game isn't fun, his 'plot armored' character is making the game bad enough that others want to make new characters or leave. If he refuses to fix it - for whatever reason - take that Chaotic Stupid Rogue down.

It's good form to give a proper warning. Stuff like 'We're professionals here, start acting like one' 'This is life and death, we can't risk taking this job on if you're going to be unreliable', is good. Have each character that is just sick of this stuff all say their piece, at the same time, so he knows he's outnumbered.

Then, when he does his thing again, everyone team up, knock him out, takes him back to the Guild leader, tell the DMPC 'Your dude's lack of professionalism endangered the mission and our lives, so we had to neutralize him.' See how the DM takes it.

If the DM doesn't take the hint, then consider walking out as a group and finding a new DM. Life is too short.

[Sariel Vailo]

Also good move

[Kane0]

Oh yeah, my vote definitely goes to bundling him up and tossing him back to the guild leader, then asking for a more functional teammate.