Doing Nice Things for your [Undead] Daughter

[BlackOnyx]

A few sessions back in my current campaign, myself and my companions were tasked with clearing out some undead from an abandoned orphanage. Lo and behold, after exorcising a few lingering ghosts from the basement, we chanced upon a young girl who had been left behind.



Though a bit on the undead side (I believe the colloquial term here is "slaymate"), she's playful, energetic, and always wearing a smile. As my character (a noble who skipped home some years ago) has had a bit (*cough cough*) of experience with postmortem magics (10th level LE cloistered cleric), I decided to take her under my wing.



Now called Serena, she's been traveling with us ever since. Due to the small issue of her status as "an abomination to all life" in most civilized societies, I've taken the liberty of transferring her consciousness (via Haunt Shift, Libris Mortis) into a small doll she had on her person at the time. Though she's still free to move around in her new form, she now has the added benefits of (1) being immune to most forms of detection and (2) fitting easily inside a handy haversack.



That all said, adventuring is a difficult lifestyle for children, undead or not. Serena's been a trooper, though, staying quiet in her extra-dimensional room whenever we've traveled into cities or dangerous areas. Though she does have some things to play with—namely papers for drawing and a mindless undead raven we call Mr. Crow—I can't help but feel guilty for stowing her away as often as I do.



Given that she will be traveling with us for the foreseeable future (I believe the safest place for her is at my side), what might be some nice things to do with/provide for Serena along the way? Any and all suggestions are appreciated. (Practical suggestions, such as protections & the like, are welcome, too.)

[Yogibear41]

I mean is she actually some poor child trapped in an undead form for all eternity or is that just how the undead chooses to manifest its personality? really depends on how undead work in your setting I suppose.
What's her alignment? if she really is a child, my guess is that it would still be neutral even though she is undead, very interesting circumstance you have here.

I know you are LE, but where do you draw the line on that, at what point do you bond enough with this undead child to try and have her raised? What other classes are in your party? Any wizards/sorcerers, etc.?

[weckar]

I actually ran into a similar situation a couple of years back. I had the advantage of having adoptive parents myself who were happy enough to take her in, and also had the opportunity to have her find some friends. You've done good with the crow, but what children really need is someone to argue with - in other words a fully-minded undead or construct.

[BlackOnyx]

I mean is she actually some poor child trapped in an undead form for all eternity or is that just how the undead chooses to manifest its personality?

She's a RAW slaymate as depicted in the Libris Mortis. She had died (or, rather, was killed) as a child, and raised as undead shortly after (presumably). Though we don't know the full story, her death was probably fairly recent.


What's her alignment? if she really is a child, my guess is that it would still be neutral even though she is undead, very interesting circumstance you have here.

Libris Mortis entry has slaymates listed as LE. In practice, she's acted (more or less) like your average eight year old.

If anything, she's a bit more obedient & reasonable than most children I've met in the real world. Very friendly and playful, as well.


I know you are LE, but where do you draw the line on that

Our table's interpretation of alignment might be a tad different than some (particularly on the good-evil axis). The Evil component, in this context, refers more to his deliberate use of [Evil] spells (such as animate dead) than his personality.

It's more of a mechanical feature; he uses those spells, so his cleric aura is unavoidably tainted.

In practice, he's a practical individual who otherwise abides by the law and is generally quite affable. He's good with (and typically likes) people and doesn't mind helping others, particularly if it helps build his reputation.

His interest in necromancy is scholarly; although he raises undead, he typically doesn't do so at the direct expense of others. (I.e. He doesn't specifically seek out people to harm or kill.)


at what point do you bond enough with this undead child to try and have her raised?

I've actually considered this as well. Once resurrection/true resurrection roll around (my character is a cleric), I might have to have a talk with Serena to figure out what she wants/what is best for her.

RP is more my focus than keeping her around for bonuses; my character would definitely be open to the idea of restoring her.


what other classes are in your party? Any wizards/sorcerers, etc.?

My current party's an interesting one, that's for sure. We have a:

- Halfing Bard (NG) - (our two characters still get along quite well, she's even played with Serena a bit)

- Mephling Binder (Varies) - (has had some bad run-ins with undead in the past)

- Mephling Sorcerer (CN?)

- Merfolk Wizard (...N? CN?) -

- Merfolk Spellthief (N)

Overall, the party is pretty open to "alternative tactics" that mostly good aligned parties might not otherwise use. They don't seem to mind my character's interest in necromancy so long as it doesn't get them into trouble.

[BlackOnyx]

I actually ran into a similar situation a couple of years back. I had the advantage of having adoptive parents myself who were happy enough to take her in, and also had the opportunity to have her find some friends.

That sounds like quite the heartwarming story arc.


You've done good with the crow, but what children really need is someone to argue with - in other words a fully-minded undead or construct.

A good call, for sure. Awaken Undead *is* just around the corner (Deathbound Domain 6), so I might be able to remedy that in the near future.

[ChaosStar]

Our table's interpretation of alignment might be a tad different than some (particularly on the good-evil axis). The Evil component, in this context, refers more to his deliberate use of [Evil] spells (such as animate dead) than his personality.

It's more of a mechanical feature; he uses those spells, so his cleric aura is unavoidably tainted.

In practice, he's a practical individual who otherwise abides by the law and is generally quite affable. He's good with (and typically likes) people and doesn't mind helping others, particularly if it helps build his reputation.

His interest in necromancy is scholarly; although he raises undead, he typically doesn't do so at the direct expense of others. (I.e. He doesn't specifically seek out people to harm or kill.)
So David Xanatos, necromancy edition?

[weckar]

That sounds like quite the heartwarming story arc.

It was, until what remained of her soul bonded with an infernal wish-twisting pocketwatch - the destroying of which incidentally slayed her too.

[Mordaedil]

Give her the dagger of Loki, the Laevatinn, and then you'll have Flandre Scarlet.

[Quertus]

You've done good with the crow, but what children really need is someone to argue with - in other words a fully-minded undead or construct.


A good call, for sure. Awaken Undead *is* just around the corner (Deathbound Domain 6), so I might be able to remedy that in the near future.

Doubt wait. Buy a scroll. Craft a construct. Buy a construct. Hire a(n undead) Nanny (Convince your DM to let you retain a feat to Leadership for this purpose). Turn/Rebuke a sentient undead playmate. Track down rumors of other Slaymates for her to play with. Set up play dates with other necromancers.

[chimaeraUndying]

I'd definitely look into getting a scroll (or paying a higher-level caster, if you've got that sort of gold) to slap an awaken undead on her, at least. Any stripe of resurrection can come later, but as you mentioned you'd want her consent for that, which prerequisites using awaken undead.


Hire a(n undead) Nanny (Convince your DM to let you retain a feat to Leadership for this purpose).

It'll probably easier just to hire such a caregiver through the hireling rules than try and swing Leadership, especially since you've already got easy access to an undead horde via your class -- I can't really imagine a DM who would be keen on letting you have that large a potential pool of mooks.


Turn/Rebuke a sentient undead playmate. Track down rumors of other Slaymates for her to play with. Set up play dates with other necromancers.

Make sure to vet any other necromancers thoroughly, though; wouldn't want her hanging around someone who doesn't respect her agency.

[BlackOnyx]

So David Xanatos, necromancy edition?

Gargoyles. I remember you. Its been a while.



It was, until what remained of her soul bonded with an infernal wish-twisting pocketwatch - the destroying of which incidentally slayed her too.

Ah. That would do it.



Give her the dagger of Loki, the Laevatinn, and then you'll have Flandre Scarlet.

That sounds terrifying. Should I find such an item, I'll certainly give it some thought. (I should really take a closer look at Touhou one of these days.)



Doubt wait. Buy a scroll. Craft a construct. Buy a construct.

Unfortunately, spellcasters that would willingly craft/sell scrolls of undead-centric spells have been somewhat rare so far. Aside from a blighter lich who is more than a little prickly towards outsiders, my PC is probably the most powerful necromancy specialist he is currently aware of. (Most of his learning was tome & experiment oriented vs. apprenticeship based.)

Haven't actually encountered any sentient construct crafters yet in the campaign. Not a bad alternative though, should we run into one.



Track down rumors of other Slaymates for her to play with. Set up play dates with other necromancers.

Not bad suggestions. That said, in the campaign world's context, Serena's condition is something of a (very) rare occurrence; we haven't stumbled across any mention of slaymates otherwise.

Likewise, my character hasn't had a whole lot of interaction with other stable, cooperative evil npcs. The vast majority we've met so far have been rather ill-intentioned or deranged.



I'd definitely look into getting a scroll (or paying a higher-level caster, if you've got that sort of gold) to slap an awaken undead on her, at least. Any stripe of resurrection can come later, but as you mentioned you'd want her consent for that, which prerequisites using awaken undead.

Well, Libris Mortis does have slaymates statted at Int 11, so I'm under the impression that Awaken Undead probably wouldn't be necessary as she is already sentient.

In practice, Serena has (presumably) retained her living personality (implicit memories) but lost most of her more concrete (explicit) memories.

That in mind, the DM noted that my character thinks (via a high Knowledge(Religion) roll) that casting "Speak with Dead" might help her to retrieve her memories of life. That said, as we're in the midst of a somewhat dangerous mission, my character is waiting for a better time to bring those memories back*.

(*Given the requirements for slaymate creation, some of her memories probably aren't pretty. We found her locked in the basement of an orphanage with the remains of feral dogs. Her throat had been cut.)



It'll probably easier just to hire such a caregiver through the hireling rules than try and swing Leadership, especially since you've already got easy access to an undead horde via your class -- I can't really imagine a DM who would be keen on letting you have that large a potential pool of mooks.

Make sure to vet any other necromancers thoroughly, though; wouldn't want her hanging around someone who doesn't respect her agency.

I will say that it would probably take quite a bit to convince my character that someone would be trustworthy enough for that kind of task. (Like you say, many of those who would be willing to watch her might try to take advantage of her.)

And yeah, Leadership/Undead Leadership are out for this campaign. Between awaken undead and rebuking, however, my character will probably have some more minion-centric options in the near future.

[Quertus]

Unfortunately, spellcasters that would willingly craft/sell scrolls of undead-centric spells have been somewhat rare so far. Aside from a blighter lich who is more than a little prickly towards outsiders, my PC is probably the most powerful necromancy specialist he is currently aware of. (Most of his learning was tome & experiment oriented vs. apprenticeship based.)

Haven't actually encountered any sentient construct crafters yet in the campaign. Not a bad alternative though, should we run into one.

Not bad suggestions. That said, in the campaign world's context, Serena's condition is something of a (very) rare occurrence; we haven't stumbled across any mention of slaymates otherwise.

Likewise, my character hasn't had a whole lot of interaction with other stable, cooperative evil npcs. The vast majority we've met so far have been rather ill-intentioned or deranged.

Well, Libris Mortis does have slaymates statted at Int 11, so I'm under the impression that Awaken Undead probably wouldn't be necessary as she is already sentient.

In practice, Serena has (presumably) retained her living personality (implicit memories) but lost most of her more concrete (explicit) memories.

That in mind, the DM noted that my character thinks (via a high Knowledge(Religion) roll) that casting "Speak with Dead" might help her to retrieve her memories of life. That said, as we're in the midst of a somewhat dangerous mission, my character is waiting for a better time to bring those memories back*.

(*Given the requirements for slaymate creation, some of her memories probably aren't pretty. We found her locked in the basement of an orphanage with the remains of feral dogs. Her throat had been cut.)

I will say that it would probably take quite a bit to convince my character that someone would be trustworthy enough for that kind of task. (Like you say, many of those who would be willing to watch her might try to take advantage of her.)

And yeah, Leadership/Undead Leadership are out for this campaign. Between awaken undead and rebuking, however, my character will probably have some more minion-centric options in the near future.

So, my main goal was to discourage duplicating the conditions that led to your "daughter's" current state. Yes, many of my ideas had their own potential drawbacks - the verboten Leadership was arguably the safest.

I thought the goal was to Awaken the Raven? AFB - would that even work?

Personally, I'm loving the idea of imagining watching your character trying to convince a druid to create / part with a Bogun to keep the spirit of a dead girl, currently bound to a doll, company in your backpack until more permanent arrangements can be made.

[Remuko]

So, my main goal was to discourage duplicating the conditions that led to your "daughter's" current state. Yes, many of my ideas had their own potential drawbacks - the verboten Leadership was arguably the safest.

I thought the goal was to Awaken the Raven? AFB - would that even work?

Personally, I'm loving the idea of imagining watching your character trying to convince a druid to create / part with a Bogun to keep the spirit of a dead girl, currently bound to a doll, company in your backpack until more permanent arrangements can be made.

chimeraundying was the one who thought using it on the girl was needed but yes i believe the original suggestion was using it on the undead bird so she would have a playmate she can talk to.

[Telonius]

Libris Mortis entry has slaymates listed as LE. In practice, she's acted (more or less) like your average eight year old.



So, chaotic evil then?

My own eight-year-old daughter just went to bed; might have to ask her what she would want in that situation. She's cat- and unicorn-obsessed at the moment. Maybe a Nightmare or Black Unicorn plushie?

One thing she'll most likely want to do is play with other kids.

[Jackalias]

You could try magicking her up a new body. That doll's probably pretty fragile and I would sleep easier knowing my daughter was made of solid iron.

[BlackOnyx]

So, my main goal was to discourage duplicating the conditions that led to your "daughter's" current state. Yes, many of my ideas had their own potential drawbacks - the verboten Leadership was arguably the safest.

Oh, no, even with the drawbacks, I appreciate the input. They're certainly good ideas, they just might not be feasible at this point in the campaign.

Should they (hopefully) become options in the future, I'll certainly look into them. Having other go-to necromancers for resources and playdates would be very useful.


I thought the goal was to Awaken the Raven? AFB - would that even work?

Correct. I *do* plan on using Awaken Undead on the raven at some point. Someone else had just mentioned using it on Serena herself.

The spell should work on undead animals as well; their intelligence will just cap out at 2.


Personally, I'm loving the idea of imagining watching your character trying to convince a druid to create / part with a Bogun to keep the spirit of a dead girl, currently bound to a doll, company in your backpack until more permanent arrangements can be made.

"Ah, yes. Master Druid? Yes, my name is Nicholas Blackwell and I had a quick favor to ask of you.

That...creature...you have there. A 'bogun,' was it? Yes, I was wondering if you might be willing to part with it for a short time.

You see, I'm currently looking after this girl—mildly undead, it would seem—and I'm afraid she's grown quite lonely sitting by herself in my handy haversack while we travel.

Might that bogun of yours be able to keep her company until a more permanent companion arrangement can be made on my end? I promise you it won't come to any harm. Probably."


So, chaotic evil then?

Oh dear. Hopefully she'll end up taking after Nicholas's lawful side.


My own eight-year-old daughter just went to bed; might have to ask her what she would want in that situation. She's cat- and unicorn-obsessed at the moment. Maybe a Nightmare or Black Unicorn plushie?

I'd love to hear those suggestions.

I did recently purchase a black plushie bird (Mr. Crow jr.) at the last market we stopped in. Perhaps I'll have to test the water with felines and equines as well.


One thing she'll most likely want to do is play with other kids.

This one may be trickier. A fair point, though. I'll have to look into it.


You could try magicking her up a new body. That doll's probably pretty fragile and I would sleep easier knowing my daughter was made of solid iron.

This is very true. May have to special order an iron figurine for this purpose. (I'd buy an iron statuette, but anything she possesses needs to have pre-articulated joints in order for her to move.)

[noob]

This is very true. May have to special order an iron figurine for this purpose. (I'd buy an iron statuette, but anything she possesses needs to have pre-articulated joints in order for her to move.)
If you wanted you could try to get an artisan to make a very realistic looking little girl sized doll for you(basically do a disguise check) and then your undead daughter could interact normally with other children(until they see something is wrong such as the doll not bleeding but you might avoid that with defensive spells and disguise self and alter self on a lesser ring of spell storing)

[Segev]

I suggest a hat of disguise. It will let her appear as a normal, living little girl. Then you can have her "out" and traveling with you in town. She can even meet other kids to play with!

[Telonius]

Okay, I got the chance to ask my daughter. She thinks the Evil Unicorn plushie idea is a good one. She also thinks that she ought to have a cat. "Maybe undead too since it'll be in the bag with her all the time. And, a Furby."

[BlackOnyx]

If you wanted you could try to get an artisan to make a very realistic looking little girl sized doll for you(basically do a disguise check) and then your undead daughter could interact normally with other children


I suggest a hat of disguise. It will let her appear as a normal, living little girl. Then you can have her "out" and traveling with you in town. She can even meet other kids to play with!

These two suggestions would work well in tandem. May have to look into that course of action sometime in the near future.

That said, roleplaying the placement of an order for a realistic, life size child doll will certainly make for an interesting encounter, to say the least.

(May have to pull out the old "children's fashion designer in search of perfect mannequin" rouse for this one.)



Okay, I got the chance to ask my daughter. She thinks the Evil Unicorn plushie idea is a good one.

Ha, that's fantastic. Thanks for the advice (to both you and your daughter).

I'll see what I can do to broaden Serena's plushie horizons next time we get the chance.


She also thinks that she ought to have a cat. "Maybe undead too since it'll be in the bag with her all the time."

A good call there. Would probably make for quite a traumatic experience otherwise.


"And, a Furby."

Now Nicholas may be LE, but I'm not sure he's quite ready to handle that much concentrated evil all at once.

Perhaps one day.

[noob]

Okay, I got the chance to ask my daughter. She thinks the Evil Unicorn plushie idea is a good one. She also thinks that she ought to have a cat. "Maybe undead too since it'll be in the bag with her all the time.And, a Furby."

A furby is a thing of nightmares unlike zombie ravens.

[weckar]

A furby is a thing of nightmares unlike zombie ravens.

It would provide the whole 'ripped out of time, living in the wrong wrong decade'-thing undead are so good at.

[Sinewmire]

A music box, preferably something with a twinkly, slightly off-key eerie tune, such as can be heart from the Lament Configuration.

Some simple story books. When I was a small undead entirely normal child, I had a prized book called "Witches, Dragons and Giants" which had folklore about all three, and cute cartoon pictures.

Ballet lessons? Kids love those.

[Segev]

It's worth noting that a Haunt can manifest itself outside of its object for a period of time each day, too.

I'd actually suggest the hat of disguise for her natural undead form, though. It will generally be closer in motion and form to what she's disguising herself as than a doll would.

You could get her embalmed and spellstitched as an additional gift, restoring her to something more akin to life-like firmness. Is she a withered husk sort of undead? A moist corpse? Mostly skeletal? The image of a slaymate in Libris Mortis is withered and bony, but it's not definitive that they must be that way.

[ShurikVch]

I would suggest try to get for her the Amulet of Repudiation (from the Return to White Plume Mountain)

This thing contains minuscule portal to Negative Energy Plane. It's minor enough to don't cause any effect on living creatures, but Undead who wearing it are immune to turning, and, in case of prolonged usage - at the DM's discretion - more HD and some unusual abilities

AFAIK, Amulet of Repudiation wasn't updated to 3.X, but, considering to whom it's intended, it shouldn't be a problem

I mean - Posistive Energy (in non-extreme doses) is pleasant for living creatures (without the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat); thus, minor amounts of Negative Energy may be pleasant for her, and also may protect in case of encountering some TU-happy cleric (as Durkon there (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html))