Looking for a monster (true dragon)

[Yogibear41]

What is the Lowest HD True Dragon that meets all of the following requirements:

1. Large or bigger in size
2. Able to cast spells as a 1st level sorcerer (or higher)
3. LA of +4 or less.
4. Not a Kobold


Would be willing to go up to +5 la if it brought the HD down more, and would really like to have access to the cleric list with the sorcerer casting if able, alot of true dragons already do this but not all of them if I recall.

Thanks for the help.

[DeTess]

I don't think there's a dragon that meets all those requirements without class levels. Closest in the SRD is a Young golden dragon, but that one has 14HD and +6 LA. You could go for a very young red dragon (10HD, +5LA) and give him a single level of sorcerer to meet your requirements.

Note that in this case, the Large requirement is driving. If you would be satisfied with a smaller dragon, more options open up.

[WhamBamSam]

Juvenile Green Dragon is 14 HD/6 LA, Juvenile Brown Dragon (Monsters of Faerun, updated in Dragons of Faerun) is 15 HD/5 LA, Juvenile Hex Dragon (Dragon Magazine 343) is 13 HD/6 LA, Juvenile Chromium Dragon (Dragon Magazine 356) is 15 HD/4 LA, Young Iron Dragon (Dragon Magazine 356) is 13 HD/6 LA, Juvenile Orange Dragon (Dragon Compendium) is 14 HD/5 LA, and Young Purple Dragon (Dragon Compendium) is 13 HD/6 LA. Beyond that, and those already mentioned, I don't know of a True Dragon which has Large size and innate casting at a listed LA. So you can't do any better than ECL 19.

[ShurikVch]

There are two such Dragons: Juvenile Chromium Dragon and Young Adult Sand Dragon; both are 15 HD, LA +4, and Large-sized; Sand Dragon is CL 1, and Chromium - CL 3

[WhamBamSam]

There are two such Dragons: Juvenile Chromium Dragon and Young Adult Sand Dragon; both are 15 HD, LA +4, and Large-sized; Sand Dragon is CL 1, and Chromium - CL 3I didn't think to check the Sand Dragon because the Wyrmling is tiny and none of the others I looked at had a listed LA at Young Adult age. That's marginally interesting, as it means it's possible for a pre-epic PC to become a Xorvintaal Dragon without Dragonwrought Kobolds being True Dragons.

[daremetoidareyo]

changeling half elf Paragon one/psywarrior 6? With racial emulation and dragonwrought feats and expansion?

[Yogibear41]

Yeah I was hoping to find something around 9 hd that was large and could cast, but looks like that isn't going to be an option :smallfrown:

[tyckspoon]

Yeah I was hoping to find something around 9 hd that was large and could cast, but looks like that isn't going to be an option :smallfrown:

Yeah, it's the 'large' requirement that's the main sticking point there. Most dragons start at Small or Medium with close to that 9 HD already; going up to Large is going to require at least one more age category, which means usually 3-5 more HD and another LA.

[daremetoidareyo]

Yeah, it's the 'large' requirement that's the main sticking point there. Most dragons start at Small or Medium with close to that 9 HD already; going up to Large is going to require at least one more age category, which means usually 3-5 more HD and another LA.

Hidden talent expansion?

[Yogibear41]

Yeah, it's the 'large' requirement that's the main sticking point there. Most dragons start at Small or Medium with close to that 9 HD already; going up to Large is going to require at least one more age category, which means usually 3-5 more HD and another LA.


If I bumped large down to Medium sized or bigger, what kind of options would I have? I'm looking through stuff myself as well.

Making myself a excel spread sheet, seems the 1st level casting ability also greatly bumps up the HD, lowest I have found that is medium and can cast is 9 hd mercurcy, 9 hd mist, and 10 hd steel and 10 hd brass all Young age.

[Yogibear41]

Here is another question, if I take a true dragon that normally can gain cleric spells from its natural sorcerer spellcasting, but use a younger variant that is not yet old enough to gain its sorcerer casting yet, and give it actual sorcerer levels can I choose cleric spells as spells known? or would I have to wait until I had gained the racial sorcerer casting to do that?

I feel like the answer is no, but might as well ask.

[Esprit15]

Here is another question, if I take a true dragon that normally can gain cleric spells from its natural sorcerer spellcasting, but use a younger variant that is not yet old enough to gain its sorcerer casting yet, and give it actual sorcerer levels can I choose cleric spells as spells known? or would I have to wait until I had gained the racial sorcerer casting to do that?

I feel like the answer is no, but might as well ask.

Wait for racial sorc casting.

[Yogibear41]

Thought so thanks.

[WhamBamSam]

I would actually rule that Sorcerer casting from the class would be able to get Cleric spells on an appropriate dragon variety (or Sovereign Archetype). There's not much actual rules text about dragon spell access and it's pretty poorly written, but I'd say that the most sensible way to parse it is as a racial quality of the dragon variety that they can learn the spells described in their entry as Sorcerer spells, and as racial casting and casting from class levels stacks, I don't think it makes sense to delineate the two, even if you get casting from the class first. Ask your DM.