Would loading a sling with silver coins work to bypass resistance/immunity?

[Unoriginal]

Several creatures' damage resistance/immunity can be bypassed by silvered weapons. But what if you just project silver coins at high speed with a sling?

The PHB mentions that the price of silvered weapons/ammunition is due not only to the cost of the silver, but also to the expertise needed to add the silver to the weapon without making it less efficient. So I guess it'd be reasonable to make that kind of improvised silver ammunition do less damage and probably warrant a disadvantage, at least.

How would you rule this out at your table?



Additional question: I thought about having an Ogre who wants to kill a Werewolf take silver coins and embed them in a club. Would you rule out it'd work, if a PC came up with an idea like that?

[Camman1984]

that would work in my eyes, a sling can be used to fire stones so a small disc of metal should work.

the silver in the club would also potentially work but would probably require some skill or expensive glue to hold them in place so the cost of the weapon would be similar.

there is also the consideration of whether silver coins are pure enough silver or whether the alloying or just poor quality would render it less effective.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd allow both of those; maybe a bit of penalty for the sling bullet, but in general I like that sort of creativity so probably not.

(I once had a DM allow my Monk to use a fistful of silver coins poking out between his fingers like brass knuckles and punch out a werewolf)

[nickl_2000]

I'd allow it, although I would rule that it would destroy the silver coin 100% of the time when you fire it (so it becomes a very expensive sling bullet). As Grod said, it's ingenuity and I would rather see that in a game than most anything else.

As for the club, I'd let it happen for one battle, but would have the coins fall out after the first battle and not be able to stick back in without some sort of expertise.

[Joe the Rat]

Old school D&D, yes. 3+, no. It's a matter of mass.

In days of old, when knights were bold, and just a fancy name for Fighter because Unearthed Arcana hadn't officially introduced the Cavalier, coins weighed 10 to the pound. "Coin" was effectively a unit of weight.
Coincidentally, so sling stones and bullets were 10 to the pound.

Later editions (including 5) place coins at 50 to the pound - 0.32 ounces. 5th ed sling ammo is 20 to 1.5lb, or 1.2 oz. per bullet. Now if you mushed together 3-4 silver pieces, you'd have something heavy enough to be a sling bullet. 75 silver pieces is the material value of 20 solid silver sling stones. The trick is finding someone to make them.

Coins in a club: I'd suggest using a heck of a lot of coins, wedged in sideways about halfway. Many rows, following the grain of the wood. Then you band up the head to tighten the wood and hold the coins in place. leather straps or cord would work in makeshift. Bending them over may also help them stay in - or rather not get jammed so far in they stop working.

[Mikal]

If I was your DM and feeling generous I would say yes, but you only do 1 damage and your attributes can't increase it, due to the fact that you're throwing coins which are not really meant to be used like that. Either that or I'd count it as an improvised weapon with disadvantage since again, you're throwing coins, not bullets.

Now if you wanted to melt down a batch of coins and create sling bullets out of them, I'd let you do so, provided you had the skill proficiency and tools available. I'd also make it cheaper than what you'd pay to make sling bullets "silvered".

[Talamare]

I can only assume that a Silver Coin in DnD is not 100% Silver

Otherwise making a Silver Club should literally be a hand full of coins that are melted and poured over the wood.
Easily less than 100g

[Unoriginal]

I can only assume that a Silver Coin in DnD is not 100% Silver

Otherwise making a Silver Club should literally be a hand full of coins that are melted and poured over the wood.
Easily less than 100g

the 100 gold coins is both the cost of the silver, and the expertise you need to add enough silver to a weapon to have an effect on the creatures, without ruining said weapons.

Silver is pretty terrible if used as a weapon, if it's pure or one of the conventional alloys.

[GooeyChewie]

I can only assume that a Silver Coin in DnD is not 100% Silver

Otherwise making a Silver Club should literally be a hand full of coins that are melted and poured over the wood.
Easily less than 100g

Materials (silver) - 10s
Labor (smelting) - 90s
Knowing how to pour molten silver on your club without having it burst into flames - 90g

[Talamare]

Materials (silver) - 10s
Labor (smelting) - 90s
Knowing how to pour molten silver on your club without having it burst into flames - 90g

There is nothing to 'know'

You take a thick club of wood, pour the silver, silver puts out the fire after it covers the wood.

This obviously wouldn't work for any Edged/Piercing Weapons, they would need a lot of care and skill to make usable.
However a simple club would be incredibly easy

[Unoriginal]

Materials (silver) - 10s
Labor (smelting) - 90s
Knowing how to pour molten silver on your club without having it burst into flames - 90g

The look on the face of your enemies when they see you can hurt them: priceless.

Some things have no price. For the rest, there is gold.

[Mikal]

There is nothing to 'know'

You take a thick club of wood, pour the silver, silver puts out the fire after it covers the wood.

This obviously wouldn't work for any Edged/Piercing Weapons, they would need a lot of care and skill to make usable.
However a simple club would be incredibly easy

Unfortunately the heat from the molten silver unevenly coats the club, causing areas to not be covered and not making it silvered. In addition, because you don't know how to treat and coat the club safely prior to application, you've cracked the wood, and it's now brittle. On the first critical hit the club shatters, making it useless, or after the first 1d6-1 attacks, whichever comes first.

Oh, also take 1d6 damage as the silver splashes around because you didn't know how to handle it properly and it burns you.

Maybe next time leave it to the professionals.

[Unoriginal]

There is nothing to 'know'

You take a thick club of wood, pour the silver, silver puts out the fire after it covers the wood.

This obviously wouldn't work for any Edged/Piercing Weapons, they would need a lot of care and skill to make usable.
However a simple club would be incredibly easy


Unfortunately the heat from the molten silver unevenly coats the club, causing areas to not be covered and not making it silvered. In addition, because you don't know how to treat and coat the club safely prior to application, you've cracked the wood, and it's now brittle. On the first critical hit the club shatters, making it useless, or after the first 1d6-1 attacks, whichever comes first.

Oh, also take 1d6 damage as the silver splashes around because you didn't know how to handle it properly and it burns you.

Maybe next time leave it to the professionals.

Also silver is soft and malleable, and it has a density nearly equal to lead, which mean that not only your club will be pretty heavy for its size, the metal part is going to bend, dent and get scrapped off when you hit something hard.

[Dudewithknives]

As ammo for a sling:

I would allow it sure, but as an improvised weapon.

Dex to hit, no proficiency
1d4 + dex damage but does count as silver for override and things.

[Strangways]

Several creatures' damage resistance/immunity can be bypassed by silvered weapons. But what if you just project silver coins at high speed with a sling?

The PHB mentions that the price of silvered weapons/ammunition is due not only to the cost of the silver, but also to the expertise needed to add the silver to the weapon without making it less efficient. So I guess it'd be reasonable to make that kind of improvised silver ammunition do less damage and probably warrant a disadvantage, at least.

How would you rule this out at your table?



Additional question: I thought about having an Ogre who wants to kill a Werewolf take silver coins and embed them in a club. Would you rule out it'd work, if a PC came up with an idea like that?

Any random rock can work as a sling bullet, so I don’t think the shape of a silver coin is a problem in that regard. They’re not like arrows, which take some skill to craft. It’s more the issue of weight. I haven’t checked the weights of those things in a while, but it seems like a coin would be significantly lighter than a sling bullet. If they’re about the same weight, then I don’t see a problem with using coins as sling bullets. As per the usual rule, you could only recover half of them after the battle, but that’s a more than reasonable cost in an emergency. Besides, a sling only does a d4 of damage anyway, their range isn’t that good, and no one ever uses them for that reason. Having this one, tiny, niche option potentially available means that there’s a slim chance that one might actually see someone use a sling, and that’s worth something.

[Gardakan]

If these coins were made with specific alchemic silver, then yeah sure.

I doubt thought then an economic system would do such, since this alchemical substance has been priced way higher then silver coins in terms of weight.

Alchemical silver (bypass specific damage resistance) and silverish susbtance (silver coins) aren't the same thing.

It's easily doable to have forged a bag of silver coins into silver ammo with some alchemical substance to make it so. Anything goes, as long as there is a cost to make it work in such a fasion.

[Talamare]

Silver is ductile, NOT Brittle...
It wouldn't shatter.
It would be partially unevenly coated, but it wouldn't matter even if it was because the parts that aren't coated wouldn't be impacting the target regardless (since those parts are sunken).

and yea it's malleable, but that just means that it dents every time you hit someone. However it doesn't matter if it does, it's a club not a sword.

Also, the word malleable means that it wouldn't shatter when you smash it.

As for the Club being a little heavy? Yea, it would gain a few pounds. That's about it
It would go from maybe being like 2 pounds to like 5 pounds

If anything, the increased weight might imply a higher damage dice.

"Cracked the Wood"
Who cares? The wood is now reinforced with metal


Oh, also take 1d6 damage as the silver splashes around because you didn't know how to handle it properly and it burns you.

Maybe next time leave it to the professionals.

1d6 damage? That's it?
I thought you were trying to screw us over here, but that's really gentle.

[Unoriginal]

If these coins were made with specific alchemic silver, then yeah sure.

I doubt thought then an economic system would do such, since this alchemical substance has been priced way higher then silver coins in terms of weight.

Alchemical silver (bypass specific damage resistance) and silverish susbtance (silver coins) aren't the same thing.

It's easily doable to have forged a bag of silver coins into silver ammo with some alchemical substance to make it so. Anything goes, as long as there is a cost to make it work in such a fasion.

Err, there is no alchemical silver in 5e.

[Lombra]

As ammo for a sling:

I would allow it sure, but as an improvised weapon.

Dex to hit, no proficiency
1d4 + dex damage but does count as silver for override and things.

I would do exactly this, and you recover half the coins you fire as if they were actual ammo.

It wouldn't realistically work because firing a disc with a sling is not going to work, but it's D&D, so screw it, werewolves will still be perilious because small towns can't afford that much silver anyways, and it is still better to coat actual ammos with silver.

That is, if silver coins were made of silver.

[Mikal]

Silver is ductile, NOT Brittle...
It wouldn't shatter.
It would be partially unevenly coated, but it wouldn't matter even if it was because the parts that aren't coated wouldn't be impacting the target regardless (since those parts are sunken).

and yea it's malleable, but that just means that it dents every time you hit someone. However it doesn't matter if it does, it's a club not a sword.

Also, the word malleable means that it wouldn't shatter when you smash it.

As for the Club being a little heavy? Yea, it would gain a few pounds. That's about it
It would go from maybe being like 2 pounds to like 5 pounds

If anything, the increased weight might imply a higher damage dice.

"Cracked the Wood"
Who cares? The wood is now reinforced with metal



1d6 damage? That's it?
I thought you were trying to screw us over here, but that's really gentle.

The screwing over is the fact that your attempt fails and you waste the silver and destroy the weapon (just a club, but still). The damage is just a ribbon to reinforce that you should leave it to the professionals.

[Talamare]

The screwing over is the fact that your attempt fails and you waste the silver and destroy the weapon (just a club, but still). The damage is just a ribbon to reinforce that you should leave it to the professionals.

Lol what?

Waste the Silver and Destroy the Weapon?
A Cracked Club Reinforced by Silver isn't destroyed, it's 100% usable and you probably wouldn't even know it was cracked.

I get that it's a fantasy world, but you can't just make up all these fantasy nonsensical rules about smithing.

The HARD truth of the matter is that an Edge and Piercing Weapon made Silver would require Professional Work, but a Silvered Club can be EASILY made by an amateur.
but the case is too narrow to bother with writing every exception.

A Silver Arrow requires this much $
A Silver Bullet requires this much $
A Silver Dagger requires this much $
A Silver Long Sword requires this much $

Screw it, they all cost a set value.

[GooeyChewie]

To answer the original question, I would likely reward the creativity with it working on some level. That level probably depends on the campaign. If the party just happened to randomly find werewolves, I’d likely have it work as regular silvered ammunition. But if the silver-weak creatures feature heavily in the campaign, I would want to make it clear the party would be better off with actual silvered weapons.

[Mikal]

Lol what?

Waste the Silver and Destroy the Weapon?
A Cracked Club Reinforced by Silver isn't destroyed, it's 100% usable and you probably wouldn't even know it was cracked.

Really? And where are you getting this from?


I get that it's a fantasy world, but you can't just make up all these fantasy nonsensical rules about smithing.

If I'm the DM I can, because you're trying as a player to circumvent the rules and gp cost to silver your weapon.

[SociopathFriend]

If I'm the DM I can, because you're trying as a player to circumvent the rules and gp cost to silver your weapon.

To be fair- the book does not indicate how much it would cost/require for you yourself to silver your weapon does it? It's not circumventing the rules if no rule exists on the subject matter.

[Mikal]

To be fair- the book does not indicate how much it would cost/require for you yourself to silver your weapon does it? It's not circumventing the rules if no rule exists on the subject matter.

Perhaps, but if someone is going to assume all you need to do is melt silver and coat a club as if it were an ice cream cone and the silver was chocolate drizzle, they have another thing coming.

Regardless, when crafting items you still currently pay the full price for it, so it's still 100 gp to do it yourself, if you have the proficiency to do so.

[Quoxis]

Why not a sock filled with silver coins instead of the club? Works in public schools, should work in DnD.

[Talamare]

Really? And where are you getting this from?

If I'm the DM I can, because you're trying as a player to circumvent the rules and gp cost to silver your weapon.

Mostly study, but I also took an apprenticeship in Jewelry. We mostly worked with Silver. Gold once, but we had to pay a supplement cost each time after the first.


Perhaps, but if someone is going to assume all you need to do is melt silver and coat a club as if it were an ice cream cone and the silver was chocolate drizzle, they have another thing coming.

Regardless, when crafting items you still currently pay the full price for it, so it's still 100 gp to do it yourself, if you have the proficiency to do so.

That is actually exactly correct for making a Silver Club. The penalties of course would be that you're using a d4 1handed weapon.
So no Finesse for Dex users, and Strength users would probably want to use 2d6+GWM or 1d10+PAM&GWM
That's already a massive nerf for saving a bit of gold

but I bet you're the type that would go...
"Okay, you know what, I allow you to make a Silver Club for 10g, but while you were making your Silver Club, a Thief came and stole 90g from you"

[GooeyChewie]

Why not a sock filled with silver coins instead of the club? Works in public schools, should work in DnD.

Because the silver needs to make contact with the werewolf to bypass the resistance, of course! :-)

I admit I have no practical experience with slivering clubs. But some quick google searches tell me silver melts at 1763°F (961.8°C), and wood can spontaneously combust somewhere between 230°F and 302°F (110°C and 150°C). I don’t think it’d be as simple a process as dipping a club in silver (as though getting a forge hit enough to melt silver in the first place was simple).

[Mikal]

Mostly study, but I also took an apprenticeship in Jewelry. We mostly worked with Silver. Gold once, but we had to pay a supplement cost each time after the first.



That is actually exactly correct for making a Silver Club. The penalties of course would be that you're using a d4 1handed weapon.
So no Finesse for Dex users, and Strength users would probably want to use 2d6+GWM or 1d10+PAM&GWM
That's already a massive nerf for saving a bit of gold

but I bet you're the type that would go...
"Okay, you know what, I allow you to make a Silver Club for 10g, but while you were making your Silver Club, a Thief came and stole 90g from you"

No. I'd expect someone to not make assumptions before trying something themselves in game, thinking that real world experience would translate into a world where someone says "Sonic Boom!", swings a sword, and creates a barrier of deadly sound that somehow damages the person surrounded by it if they move without actually making sound elsewhere.

I'd also expect someone to check with the DM as to the process as well, since the DM is the adjudicator for that, not some summer class you took one time.

And I'm also the type of DM who would say "No. It's 100 gp to do the process, regardless of weapon. If you attempt it yourself you may get a small discount, if you have the tools and proficiency. And just melting coins and pouring it like a sauce on a drumstick doesn't work, sorry."

[Arcangel4774]

As slings arent an overly strong weapon, id say it works but at a reduced range as the coins dont fly as well as the balls/stones normally used in the sling.

[Tiadoppler]

iirc, a silver coin is 1/50 lb (roughly the same as two US Nickels). This is a bit too light and flat to be a good sling stone, so calling it improvised ammo that bypasses silver resistance is a good compromise.

A standard club with coins sticking out of it is a great idea! How does it differ from a normal club?
- it has slots cut into it to hold coins. It could be weaker than a normal club and more prone to shatter when used.
- it has a different balance than a standard club once you put a few lbs of coins in it. It could be slower to swing, or less accurate.
- it relies on coins staying inside. What if they fall out?

Simple: it's an improvised silver weapon. No proficiency. Bypasses silver resistance.
Heavy: you cannot add your proficiency to the attack role, only to damage. Bypasses silver resistance.
Complex: It's a club with (some number of) silver coins in it. Whenever you successfully hit with it, d8 coins fall out onto the ground.

[Requilac]

I don’t know how realistic this solution is, but I would allow my players to load silver coins into a sling bullet and use them as ammunition without penalty. It is a D4 weapon that has a 30 foot normal range, letting that bypass resistance and immunity is not going to cause a problem.

As for placing silver coins into the club, I really can’t see that working out at any of my tables unless under special circumstances. How exactly are you going to get the coins to stay on the club after you hit something with it? Even using modern day superglue would not keep the coins on after a good thwack or two. I understand that D&D is not a real life simulation, but that is a little absurd for my taste. Now, if the PCs somehow had some type of super strong glue like substance, such as sovereign glue or... umm, some sort of dragon mucus(?), than they totally could coat the club in silver, but otherwise not really. Unless I was specifically running a humorous game that is.


I would do exactly this, and you recover half the coins you fire as if they were actual ammo.

It wouldn't realistically work because firing a disc with a sling is not going to work, but it's D&D, so screw it, werewolves will still be perilious because small towns can't afford that much silver anyways, and it is still better to coat actual ammos with silver.

That is, if silver coins were made of silver.

Even if the town had enough silver to use as ammunition against an attacking werewolf, it would still be a really tough fight. Even a large group of commoners would have trouble defeating a CR 3 creature if all their attacks had a +0 bonus to hit and deal 1d4+0 damage on a hit. Just imagine the
havoc a werecat-tiger would wreak upon a bunch of commoners, they are already weaker than normal cats, a bigger half-humanoid one is going to be a nightmare for them.

[Tiadoppler]

As for placing silver coins into the club, I really can’t see that working out at any of my tables unless under special circumstances. How exactly are you going to get the coins to stay on the club after you hit something with it? Even using modern day superglue would not keep the coins on after a good thwack or two. I understand that D&D is not a real life simulation, but that is a little absurd for my taste. Now, if the PCs somehow had some type of super strong glue like substance, such as sovereign glue or... umm, some sort of dragon mucus(?), than they totally could coat the club in silver, but otherwise not really. Unless I was specifically running a humorous game that is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macuahuitl

Different options: A steel nail could be driven through the thin, soft silver to hold the coins in place. They could be wedged in, or attached in a manner similar to stone arrowheads, spearheads and axes. Tricky, possibly, but quite realistic - especially for a civilization with a D&D level of technology.

[Unoriginal]

As for placing silver coins into the club, I really can’t see that working out at any of my tables unless under special circumstances. How exactly are you going to get the coins to stay on the club after you hit something with it? Even using modern day superglue would not keep the coins on after a good thwack or two. I understand that D&D is not a real life simulation, but that is a little absurd for my taste. Now, if the PCs somehow had some type of super strong glue like substance, such as sovereign glue or... umm, some sort of dragon mucus(?), than they totally could coat the club in silver, but otherwise not really. Unless I was specifically running a humorous game that is.

Take the coin, hammer its edge into the wood until it's half-way stuck in (or a bit more). Maybe sharpen what's sticking out



they are already weaker than normal cats, a bigger half-humanoid one is going to be a nightmare for them.

Wrong edition.

[Lombra]

As for placing silver coins into the club, I really can’t see that working out at any of my tables unless under special circumstances. How exactly are you going to get the coins to stay on the club after you hit something with it? Even using modern day superglue would not keep the coins on after a good thwack or two. I understand that D&D is not a real life simulation, but that is a little absurd for my taste. Now, if the PCs somehow had some type of super strong glue like substance, such as sovereign glue or... umm, some sort of dragon mucus(?), than they totally could coat the club in silver, but otherwise not really. Unless I was specifically running a humorous game that is.

There are numerous mechanical ways to stick coins in wood actually, you don't really need glue, you could mount them in the wooden club, and smacking with it can only push them even more in the collets made to house them in the first place. I would imagine the club wit a set of silver spines running around the upper part could work, maybe not for long, but enaugh for a fight or two.


Even if the town had enough silver to use as ammunition against an attacking werewolf, it would still be a really tough fight. Even a large group of commoners would have trouble defeating a CR 3 creature if all their attacks had a +0 bonus to hit and deal 1d4+0 damage on a hit. Just imagine the
havoc a werecat-tiger would wreak upon a bunch of commoners, they are already weaker than normal cats, a bigger half-humanoid one is going to be a nightmare for them.

I was assuming a village with somewhat trained militia but you are right, even a couple boars could destroy a small village probably.

[Joe dirt]

yes.... however this is an improvised weapon and not a smooth round shot. so disadvantage on the attack

[Tanarii]

No way. A 5e coin is not heavy enough to use with a sling in place of a sling bullet.

[Demonslayer666]

I remember as a kid trying to shoot pennies out of my wrist rocket. They are wildly inaccurate, zipping off in random directions with no distance. They just didn't work at all.

You would have to clump several together to make a sling bullet - melt them down, hammer them together, glue, etc.

The club I would rule would work if you use a lot of coins to cover the majority of the clubs surface. If you didn't do it professionally, it'd give it limited uses, like 10 hits.

[Requilac]

Is silver really so soft you can just dig nails through it like that? I could have sworn that you could only poke a hole through silver if the object used to poke it was at intense heats, but i also confess that I have never done any sort of blacksmithing or similar art in the entirety of my life. How exactly would you wedge it into the club though? Do you put slits in the wood and insert the coins in? That seems like they would fall out the second you hit something if that is how they are put in.

[Tanarii]

I remember as a kid trying to shoot pennies out of my wrist rocket. They are wildly inaccurate, zipping off in random directions with no distance. They just didn't work at all.Another good point. Coins aren't known for their aerodynamic qualities, unless you're talking about spinning them, like skipping stones.

That's something that always bothered me about Coinshots in the Mistborn series. They were just applying a strong force directly away from them, but it was often treated like they had expert aim with individual coins. Although it was sometimes the description was clearly just a blast of multiple coins, blunderbuss style.


You would have to clump several together to make a sling bullet - melt them down, hammer them together, glue, etc.Glue might work. But at this point, IMO you're talking about crafting your own silvered weapon. ie use the crafting downtime rules for time, and save 50% of the cost.

[Lombra]

Is silver really so soft you can just dig nails through it like that? I could have sworn that you could only poke a hole through silver if the object used to poke it was at intense heats, but i also confess that I have never done any sort of blacksmithing or similar art in the entirety of my life. How exactly would you wedge it into the club though? Do you put slits in the wood and insert the coins in? That seems like they would fall out the second you hit something if that is how they are put in.

I wasn't thinking about nailing the coins, but yes, there's a technique used mostly to build arrows which consists in splitting the extremity of the wood in half, jamming the head in the slit, and then wrapping a kind of filament around the splitted part to fix the head in place, since now both halves of the stick press against the head. A similar method could be applied on a larger scale on a larger object, sometimes a kind of glue is used, but it isn't necessary really. Now this was meant to build arrows, so probably it won't withstand many hits if applied on a lage club, but may be enaugh to kill a werewolf.

The explaination is probably messy, but you could look up "cherokee arrows" and you should find what I'm referring to.

Edit: now that I think about it, making arrows with coins for the head shouldn't be that bad, maybe a drop in range and damage since they couldn't pierce, but still fireable maybe.

[Kane0]

Sure, why not. Might want to strap a couple of coins together depending on their size though. Slings need more love.

[Tiadoppler]

Is silver really so soft you can just dig nails through it like that? I could have sworn that you could only poke a hole through silver if the object used to poke it was at intense heats, but i also confess that I have never done any sort of blacksmithing or similar art in the entirety of my life. How exactly would you wedge it into the club though? Do you put slits in the wood and insert the coins in? That seems like they would fall out the second you hit something if that is how they are put in.

Silver is a bit softer than copper, so yes, a thin piece of silver can be modified with even very simple tools. An adventurer with 16+ str would most likely be able to simply hammer an iron or steel nail straight through a silver coin.

Silver also has a significantly lower melting point than steel, so any village blacksmith who can manipulate iron or steel would have the capability to melt silver coins together (crudely at least) into real silver sling bullets. That person may not have any experience with precious metals and screw up a bit, and it would not be pretty, but it would probably be enough to make improvised silver weaponry.

If you want to wedge the coins straight into the wood, you cut a slot slightly smaller than the coin, maybe insert a bit of glue/wood sap, then hammer the coin in. Following that, you can wrap the wood tightly with (wet, so it tightens when it dries) cord on either side of the coin to keep the tension on the coin. Then, optionally, you hammer a steel nail straight through that sucker.

[CursedRhubarb]

Would you allow a Forge Cleric to make silver sling bullets with enough silver coins and scrap steel to make them silver alloy 2ith their Channel Divinity? I know that technically they would exceed the 100gp value limit, but if they weren't paying they extra for someone else to do it would that drop their price enough to allow? I could see not being able to sell them as a reasonable tax to be allowed making a niche ammo type.

[Honest Tiefling]

No way. A 5e coin is not heavy enough to use with a sling in place of a sling bullet.

I'm inclined to agree. The average silver coin isn't going to have enough weight to it to do anything but annoy people. I'd probably allow anyone with proficiency in a tool with hot flames (Glassblower, jeweler, smith or tinker) to be able to make a lump of silvered ammunition with enough silver coins. I get the idea of it being destroyed, but I'd probably just say that unless the crafter was super careful the silver might not be pure enough anymore and has lost its mark of purity, so its value is reduced and call it a day.


Silver is a bit softer than copper, so yes, a thin piece of silver can be modified with even very simple tools. An adventurer with 16+ str would most likely be able to simply hammer an iron or steel nail straight through a silver coin.

I...I really doubt you'd need THAT much strength to hammer a coin...How thick would the coin be?


Would you allow a Forge Cleric to make silver sling bullets with enough silver coins and scrap steel to make them silver alloy 2ith their Channel Divinity? I know that technically they would exceed the 100gp value limit, but if they weren't paying they extra for someone else to do it would that drop their price enough to allow? I could see not being able to sell them as a reasonable tax to be allowed making a niche ammo type.

I don't like mucking with spells and making them more powerful, down that path leads the Pun-Pun. However, I'd probably allow a forge cleric to make 10 pieces of ammunition without the steel and treat them as normal silvered ammunition. They're a forge cleric, and it's unlikely to be trodding on the toes of the rest of the party. Close enough and I don't want to keep doing math.

[danpit2991]

coins are too light to do any damage and are shaped wrong to fly i think mythbusters did a show where they shot silver dimes out of a shot gun and barely managed to penetrate so coins from a sling? um no a club coated with studded by or banded by silver sure why not? in order for silver to be effective from a sling you would have to melt the silver and pour it into football shaped moulds so you end up with bullets that weigh around 1.5 to 3 ounces as in this example

http://www.academia.edu/24831679/The_Lead_Sling_Bullets


but if the dm says ok its ok this is just my 2CP




EDIT round balls would work too

[danpit2991]

Is silver really so soft you can just dig nails through it like that? I could have sworn that you could only poke a hole through silver if the object used to poke it was at intense heats, but i also confess that I have never done any sort of blacksmithing or similar art in the entirety of my life. How exactly would you wedge it into the club though? Do you put slits in the wood and insert the coins in? That seems like they would fall out the second you hit something if that is how they are put in.

silver has a hardness of 2.5 -3 on the mohs scale whereas steel is in the range of 7 to further clarify copper,brass and bronze are around 3 on the scale and lead is about 1.5 so yea a nail will go right through a silver coin or a gold one too as gold is about the same hardness as silver


EDIT
also there has been archaeological evidence that sling bullets were made by pouring lead into hole on the ground made by poking a finger or stick in the dirt so poke some thumb size holes on the ground pour in molten silver there you go silver sling ammo

[Requilac]

Thank you all for the clarifying responses. I was well aware of how the cherokee arrow works, but the difference with an arrow is that once it hits the target you don’t need the arrowhead to stay attached tot he shaft, will with a club you need to keep the coins attached in so you can continue to use it. At best the coins would stay in for one or two hits before falling out, at least if my (limited) knowledge of weapons is up to par. Using glue-like substances though would cover up that issue, like I was saying. The cords might work also. I was entirely unaware of the fact that you could Drive nails through silver like that though.

I am going to concede to my former statement, I would allow a player to place coins in a club. They would need a hammer and some nails though, and they would only stay in for 1 fight really.

[Doug Lampert]

Any random rock can work as a sling bullet, so I don’t think the shape of a silver coin is a problem in that regard. They’re not like arrows, which take some skill to craft. It’s more the issue of weight. I haven’t checked the weights of those things in a while, but it seems like a coin would be significantly lighter than a sling bullet. If they’re about the same weight, then I don’t see a problem with using coins as sling bullets. As per the usual rule, you could only recover half of them after the battle, but that’s a more than reasonable cost in an emergency. Besides, a sling only does a d4 of damage anyway, their range isn’t that good, and no one ever uses them for that reason. Having this one, tiny, niche option potentially available means that there’s a slim chance that one might actually see someone use a sling, and that’s worth something.

Um, slingers went to a lot of trouble to select river rocks for bullets. They also used specially shaped clay bullets or molded lead bullets, in all cases the shape is not random, the shape is fairly consistently streamlined and spin stabilizes on release.

Classical Roman lead sling bullets ran about 1 oz, other groups would use other sizes but lead bullets tended to be used as light, long range ammo. Clay and stone were much heavier (slingers would carry multiple slings for different ranges and ammo). But silver is fairly close to lead in the relevant properties, so 1 oz is fine, one coin is not.

[Coidzor]

Several creatures' damage resistance/immunity can be bypassed by silvered weapons. But what if you just project silver coins at high speed with a sling?

The PHB mentions that the price of silvered weapons/ammunition is due not only to the cost of the silver, but also to the expertise needed to add the silver to the weapon without making it less efficient. So I guess it'd be reasonable to make that kind of improvised silver ammunition do less damage and probably warrant a disadvantage, at least.

How would you rule this out at your table?

Probably treat it as an improvised ranged weapon attack if I didn't disallow it as an ineffective attack. Maybe a sort of opposite version of the Great Weapon Fighting Style, where 3s and 4s on damage would get re-rolled once.


Additional question: I thought about having an Ogre who wants to kill a Werewolf take silver coins and embed them in a club. Would you rule out it'd work, if a PC came up with an idea like that?

Silvered Improvised Weapon, yeah, sure, if they had the time or wherewithal to effect such a thing. Generally if they do, though, they can just get a conventional silvered weapon that they have proficiency with instead.

[SharkForce]

not sure why you're all requiring proficiency to make crude sling bullets. if you can melt the silver (ie you have the appropriate tools), you may not get anything great without knowing what you're doing, but just making something you could launch out of a sling should be super easy.

i don't think a club coated in silver would work very well though. and no, the silver is not going to reinforce the club's strength. silver isn't exactly known for its exceptional sturdiness. nailing coins onto a club might work for a short period of time though.

[Tanarii]

not sure why you're all requiring proficiency to make crude sling bullets. if you can melt the silver (ie you have the appropriate tools), you may not get anything great without knowing what you're doing, but just making something you could launch out of a sling should be super easy.Because crafting requires proficiency with the appropriate tool. And crafting is what the PC is attempting to do.

It might be an overly strict interpretation of the rules, but sometimes that's a DMs job when a PC is attempting to get around the rules. Of course, a simpler way would be to just say "you can't do that". But silvered weapons clearly get made somehow, and there are rules for making things that can be applied.

[SharkForce]

Because crafting requires proficiency with the appropriate tool. And crafting is what the PC is attempting to do.

It might be an overly strict interpretation of the rules, but sometimes that's a DMs job when a PC is attempting to get around the rules. Of course, a simpler way would be to just say "you can't do that". But silvered weapons clearly get made somehow, and there are rules for making things that can be applied.

crafting things to a good level of quality requires proficiency.

you can craft a "club" by prying the leg off of a chair. it won't be a very good club, but it will be a club.

[Tanarii]

crafting things to a good level of quality requires proficiency.

you can craft a "club" by prying the leg off of a chair. it won't be a very good club, but it will be a club.So you're saying: It'll be an improvised weapon, but close enough it can be treated as such?
I'm sold. That's both reasonable and RAW.

[Knaight]

Any random rock can work as a sling bullet, so I don’t think the shape of a silver coin is a problem in that regard. They’re not like arrows, which take some skill to craft. It’s more the issue of weight. I haven’t checked the weights of those things in a while, but it seems like a coin would be significantly lighter than a sling bullet.
Any random rock doesn't work as a sling bullet*. You generally want a round or slightly oblong rock (something roughly football shaped is excellent), which is fairly smooth, within a fairly small size range - although that size range does vary by sling and situation, and there are niche cases where you hurl half pound rocks. Something roughly brick shaped and rough can be slung, but it tends to fly poorly and also come out of the pouch a bit weird, and just not behave well. Something approximately disk shaped will tumble in the air, catch air resistance in weird ways that change with the facing, and generally take a short path to a weird place - and this is with much higher thickness than an actual coin. The weight just makes it worse.

*Also "bullet" is a terrible term, but "glande" doesn't seem to catch on for some reason.


As for the Club being a little heavy? Yea, it would gain a few pounds. That's about it
It would go from maybe being like 2 pounds to like 5 pounds

I don't know silversmithing particularly well, and I'll defer to you on that basically working. I do know stick fighting, and I can say that a two pound one handed weapon handles very differently than a five pound one handed weapon - and that five pound one handed weapons are pretty much a bad idea across the board, with the occasional exception requiring a heavy counterweight and being best at thrusting anyways (some heavier spears fit this). A five pound weapon meant to be wielded as a club is terrible.

With that said, that also seems a little excessive in terms of the thickness of the silver layer, and if you're using a thick layer you might as well just put it on the end and use the club more like a mace anyways.

[PartyChef]

Given the right weight I would allow the coin bullets.

Probably for the club but it'd ruin the club's weight and be a pain.

I want to point out that silver is twice as hard as lead. 3 Mohr hardness compared to 1.5. Steel is only a hardness or 4 (although it can be practically doubled if properly hardened, i.e. masterwork).

Silver also has a melting point over 1700 degrees Fahrenheit. Lead is around 600. Soooo, hire a professional and get steel sword with some silver engravings.

[Talamare]

I don't know silversmithing particularly well, and I'll defer to you on that basically working. I do know stick fighting, and I can say that a two pound one handed weapon handles very differently than a five pound one handed weapon - and that five pound one handed weapons are pretty much a bad idea across the board, with the occasional exception requiring a heavy counterweight and being best at thrusting anyways (some heavier spears fit this). A five pound weapon meant to be wielded as a club is terrible.

With that said, that also seems a little excessive in terms of the thickness of the silver layer, and if you're using a thick layer you might as well just put it on the end and use the club more like a mace anyways.

You're right, assuming we use 10g worth of Silver coins, and that they weigh about 4grams each, and that we don't spill any
That's still quite a bit less than even a single pound.

For those going, I BET THAT ISN'T EVEN THAT MUCH SILVER
http://www.silverwow.net/media/SP/heavy-bracelets/ss_size1/30mm-very-heavy-bracelet_4.jpg
This is 350grams, so quite a bit more than this.

[Knaight]

You're right, assuming we use 10g worth of Silver coins, and that they weigh about 4grams each, and that we don't spill any
That's still quite a bit less than even a single pound.

For those going, I BET THAT ISN'T EVEN THAT MUCH SILVER
http://www.silverwow.net/media/SP/heavy-bracelets/ss_size1/30mm-very-heavy-bracelet_4.jpg
This is 350grams, so quite a bit more than this.

I'm not sure anyone is thinking it's not that much silver. 3 pounds is a lot of material for a coating of something meant to be held. I don't know how thick a coating the dip technique would produce (again, I don't know silversmithing well at all), so that 3 pounds does sound plausible as a result of the technique; molten metals are pretty viscous as a rule after all.

Also, going back to sling bullets* - I assume that actually casting a roughly spherical or football shaped solid object with silver is stupid easy. That correct?

*Still a terrible term.

[Coidzor]

Also, going back to sling bullets* - I assume that actually casting a roughly spherical or football shaped solid object with silver is stupid easy. That correct?

*Still a terrible term.

The melting point of Silver is 1,763°F or 961.8°C. This is significantly higher than the melting point of Lead, though, which is 621.4°F or 327.5°C.

Still, charcoal should be capable of producing enough heat to melt silver, especially with a furnace.

Once you can melt it and have a way with which to pour it, then, yeah, casting into simple shapes is pretty trivial, especially relatively small shapes.

[Tiadoppler]

A coin in 5e (every edition after 3.5, I believe) is 9 grams, or 1/50 lb
50 silver = 1lb of silver

I'd put improvised silver weaponry materials cost as:
Ammo(improvised) 5sp (1/10lb)
1 handed weapon(improvised) 100sp (2lbs)
2 handed weapon(improvised) 200sp (4lbs)

I think Mythbusters did some testing on casting silver (bullets, specifically for firearms) and found that it's quite difficult to get an exact shape because silver shrinks when cooling. This is much less important for a sling bullet, but might cause cracking or flaking when coating a weapon.

[Knaight]

The melting point of Silver is 1,763°F or 961.8°C. This is significantly higher than the melting point of Lead, though, which is 621.4°F or 327.5°C.

You can make lead glandes with a cookpot, a campfire, and some dirt. As far as melting points go, that's still well under iron and basically every steel alloy, and pretty close to bronze. There's a reason I'm assuming it's really easy, in that if there is something making it hard it's clearly not something obvious.

[danpit2991]

I was entirely unaware of the fact that you could Drive nails through silver like that though.

I am going to concede to my former statement, I would allow a player to place coins in a club. They would need a hammer and some nails though, and they would only stay in for 1 fight really.

as a test i drove a few nails through some pennies into a stick it wasnt hard and after some bashing the were still nailed on the ones i drove in edgewise like studs , no glue, either fell out or were driven deeper about 50/50


what? i got off work early and was bored lol

[Malifice]

Several creatures' damage resistance/immunity can be bypassed by silvered weapons. But what if you just project silver coins at high speed with a sling?

The PHB mentions that the price of silvered weapons/ammunition is due not only to the cost of the silver, but also to the expertise needed to add the silver to the weapon without making it less efficient. So I guess it'd be reasonable to make that kind of improvised silver ammunition do less damage and probably warrant a disadvantage, at least.

How would you rule this out at your table?



Additional question: I thought about having an Ogre who wants to kill a Werewolf take silver coins and embed them in a club. Would you rule out it'd work, if a PC came up with an idea like that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sling_(weapon)#Ammunition

Sling bullets historically typically weigh 50-500 grams. In DnD they weight 5lbs for 10 (220 grams each).

In DnD coins typically weigh around 40 grams (1.6 Oz or 1/10 of a lb).

That is one heavy coin by the way. Australian 50 cent coins are freaking massive (see below) and they only weight 15 grams (1/3 the weight of a DnD coin):

https://i0.wp.com/www.alamandamaths.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/529285673.jpg?w=1040

I certainly wouldnt want to get sconed on the head with a bundle of [3 x 50c coins] anytime soon, but its not going to be fatal.

Now a bundle of 5 x (DnD coins) is the same weight as a DnD sling bullet, and the same weight as 15 Australian 50 cent coins.

I certainly wouldnt want to be hit with that at any velocity.

TL;DR - doubtful I'd let a single silver coin do anything other than 1 point of damage on a hit. Bundle 5 together and we can talk.

In either event I'd impose disadvantage on the attack roll as it's an improvised weapon.

[bc56]

As ammo for a sling:

I would allow it sure, but as an improvised weapon.

Dex to hit, no proficiency
1d4 + dex damage but does count as silver for override and things.

Of course, if the player has the Tavern Brawler feat, they can have proficiency in the attack, because it's an improvised weapon.

[Joe the Rat]

In DnD coins typically weigh around 40 grams (1.6 Oz or 1/10 of a lb).

That is one heavy coin by the way. Australian 50 cent coins are freaking massive (see below) and they only weight 15 grams (1/3 the weight of a DnD coin):

I'd actually looked at this for Basic Fantasy RPG - the listed rule was 1.6 oz and 5 to the cubic inch - fairly chunky, and middling between actual density for the different coin metals. Modern coins also tend towards zinc and nickel - a bit less dense.

But 3.5, 4, and 5e coins are 50 to the pound (around 4 grams), and sling bullets 20 for 1.5 lb (which does end up below the historical range).

The Aussie 50cent ranks up the old Irish 50p as my favorite flipping coins - I love the mass (and odd shape) of them.

[DaveOfTheDead]

(I once had a DM allow my Monk to use a fistful of silver coins poking out between his fingers like brass knuckles and punch out a werewolf)

I might just be playing a monk in CoS soon. Thanks for the idea!

[Tiadoppler]

But 3.5, 4, and 5e coins are 50 to the pound (around 4 grams), and sling bullets 20 for 1.5 lb (which does end up below the historical range).


Point of order. 1 lb is ~450 grams, 1/50th lb is ~9 grams

D&D coins are most likely very pure metal because their value is determined by their weight of precious metals. Modern coins are made out of random alloys because they're specifically backed by a stable government which gives them value. They aren't necessarily valuable as commodities (collectible coins excluded).

[JNAProductions]

Have not read the thread, but to answer the OP's question:

Yes. I'd probably give you a -1 or -2 to-hit with them, since they aren't weighted right, but it's silver. It should damage lycanthropes, or other such monsters.

As for the club, I'd say that yes, that works, but if you roll a 1 to hit the bad blow knocks the silver coins out. You could probably pay to craft/craft yourself a club with silver worked throughout that had no penalty, though.

[Arkhios]

Probably not the first one in this boat, but I'd allow it. Although, without proficiency bonus and lower damage die, unless you have Tavern Brawler.

[Beelzebubba]

I'd let them work, for short range only and 1-2 damage each.