Pathfinder gunslinger build.

[Jackalias]

Is this build at all viable?
Gun tank/pistolero 17, steel blood bloodrager 2, spellslinger 1.

[grarrrg]

Is this build at all viable?
Gun tank/pistolero 17, steel blood bloodrager 2, spellslinger 1.

Unless your numbers are scrambled, I see little point to Bloodrager and Spellslinger.
Gunslinger and Bloodrager don't synergize well (Rage is +STR and Gunslinger has no real use for STR).
The tiny amount of spells you have doesn't justify Spellslinger.

Would recommend just sticking with Gunslinger all the way to 20 and get True Grit.
True Grit > 3 levels of dipping for "eh" bonuses.

I suspect you're taking Steel Blood for the 'in armor movement' bonus. Which probably isn't overall worth it, we can likely find a more fitting option to do the same.
Likewise, Spellslinger's benefits are minimal for what you are giving up.

Offhand, 3 levels of Fighter would get you 2 bonus feats, and Armor Training which would let you move at normal speed in Medium armor. Just buy Heavy armor made out of Mithral (or similar) and BOOM no speed penalty.

[Jackalias]

The movement bonus was one of the reasons I took steel blood yes, the other was that it removes the spell failure chance. As for spellslinger I took it for the unseen servant spell, because I was having trouble thinking of how to use the gun tank's shield. Is it still not worth it? I was considering taking the shapechanger bloodline for a middling amount of utility bonuses.

[grarrrg]

The movement bonus was one of the reasons I took steel blood yes, the other was that it removes the spell failure chance. As for spellslinger I took it for the unseen servant spell, because I was having trouble thinking of how to use the gun tank's shield. Is it still not worth it? I was considering taking the shapechanger bloodline for a middling amount of utility bonuses.

Steelblood (or Bloodrager in general) only removes spell failure from Bloodrager spells. It would do nothing for Wizard spells.

Unseen Servant is NOT recommended for reloading: "a nonproficient character who loads a firearm increases all misfire values by 4 for the shots he loads."

Gun Tanks in a non-'guns everywhere' setting are pretty much stuck using a Buckler, as it's the only shield that still allows free use of the hand.
If you want to use an actual shield, then your next best option would be to grow another arm or have a tail that can hold things. Alchemist 2 can pick up Vestigial Arm (good for reloads, not much else), and a couple races have tails.

[Jackalias]

Steelblood (or Bloodrager in general) only removes spell failure from Bloodrager spells. It would do nothing for Wizard spells.

"Huh I must have missed that bit about the bloodrager, oh well, back to the drawing board. I'm considering replacing the bloodrager with 2 levels of living monolith for thematic reasons. Is the unseen servant really loading the gun though? My idea was that it could hold it while I loaded"

Any critiques of my other idea for a gun user? This one was more of a thought experiment to see if I could make a competent gun user without any gunslinger in it.

level 1 spellslinger, level 3 trench fighter, level 6 gun chemist/sacrament alchemist. Level 10 grand Marshall.

[grarrrg]

Transferring an item would be a Move action, so not feasible to hand gun back and forth.

Not familiar with half of your second suggestion, will get back to you.

[Malroth]

White haired witch 1 would give you all the holding capability you want, either shield holding or gun reolading with no chance of spell failure since it's a SLA

[grarrrg]

White haired witch 1 would give you all the holding capability you want, either shield holding or gun reolading with no chance of spell failure since it's a SLA

By RAW White Haired doesn't work.
The Prehensile Hair Hex says it can function as a hand, but the White Haired archetype does not, nor does it reference Prehensile Hair Hex.

[Jackalias]

BTW the second build would require the amateur gunslinger feat for some grit.

[grarrrg]

Any critiques of my other idea for a gun user? This one was more of a thought experiment to see if I could make a competent gun user without any gunslinger in it.
level 1 spellslinger, level 3 trench fighter, level 6 gun chemist/sacrament alchemist. Level 10 grand Marshall.

Overall that does hit most of the notes of Gunslinger without actually taking levels in it.

I assume you mean Grenadier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/grenadier-alchemist-archetype) Alchemist? Interesting enough choice, opens a few options, notably an extra arm for reloading TWF!

Sacrament Alchemist? Loss of Mutagen hurts a little, but you basically get a free bonus Discovery. Not sure what Domain would be ideal though.

[Jackalias]

I assume you mean Grenadier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/grenadier-alchemist-archetype) Alchemist?

No I mean this https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/gun-chemist-alchemist-archetype/

[Buddy76]

If you want a spellcasting gunslinger, have you considered spellslinger 1/ arcane archer magus 19? Arcane Archer stacks with hexcrafter magus (so you can take the prehensile hair hex to reload hands free). Here's a great miniguide for this build: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478211-Staff-and-Gun-a-miniguide-to-the-Eldritch-Gunslinger-(or-How-to-be-Harry-Dresden)

EDIT: Sorry, I had a brain fart. I meant eldritch archer, not arcane archer.

[Jackalias]

The spellcasting's a secondary concern, I'm more focused on being good with a gun.

[grarrrg]

I assume you mean Grenadier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/grenadier-alchemist-archetype) Alchemist?

No I mean this https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/gun-chemist-alchemist-archetype/

Oh yeah, do that. Sounds more entertaining.

[Jackalias]

How do you think the second build stacks up to a more conventional gunslinger?

[Florian]

How do you think the second build stacks up to a more conventional gunslinger?

Problem is, the Gunslinger class doesn't really offer anything beyond a certain point (Dex to damage with guns), ranged combat is mostly based on feats, not class, but class can offer a higher synergy.

I don't know why you're going for the Shieldmarshal PrC and why you keep dipping that one level of Spellslinger. You're going for a full attack build, so you want either to cram as much static damage booster in as you can (Gun Training, Weapon Training, WepSpec feat..), or you try for high burst damage numbers (Gun Chemist. Warpriest...)

[noob]

Problem is, the Gunslinger class doesn't really offer anything beyond a certain point (Dex to damage with guns), ranged combat is mostly based on feats, not class, but class can offer a higher synergy.

I don't know why you're going for the Shieldmarshal PrC and why you keep dipping that one level of Spellslinger. You're going for a full attack build, so you want either to cram as much static damage booster in as you can (Gun Training, Weapon Training, WepSpec feat..), or you try for high burst damage numbers (Gun Chemist. Warpriest...)

Oh and if you want dex to damage trench fighter gives it faster.(three levels instead of 5)

[Florian]

Oh and if you want dex to damage trench fighter gives it faster.(three levels instead of 5)

I´d be careful with that specific archetype, as it´s used in an AP to model World War One infantry, as the name implies, based on an alternate Earth history.

[Jackalias]

"I don't know why you're going for the Shieldmarshal PrC and why you keep dipping that one level of Spellslinger. You're going for a full attack build, so you want either to cram as much static damage booster in as you can (Gun Training, Weapon Training, WepSpec feat..), or you try for high burst damage numbers (Gun Chemist. Warpriest..."

I went for the shield marshal because it was the only gun oriented prestige class I could find, and I took spellslinger in both builds because I had a free level and nothing else to do with it. Again, this build

level 1 spellslinger, level 3 trench fighter, level 6 gun chemist/sacrament alchemist. Level 10 grand Marshall.

Was really more of a thought experiment to make a competent gun user without any levels of gunslinger.

[Jackalias]

Also my first idea in this thread was based off of a misinterpretation of the rules. My new idea is level 2 spellslinger (for reloading hands), level 17 gun tank/pistolero, and level 1 witch (for prehensile hair).

[Florian]

Was really more of a thought experiment to make a competent gun user without any levels of gunslinger.

Well, all you need is Grit and the Quick Clear Deed to make guns work reliably. I already pointed out that DEX to damage is not necessarily needed when you have other sources of raw damage - think about it, you can also use the TWF rules with guns and (as example) an Inquisitor with Double Bane stacks up enough dice to hurt someone.... You might also want to check the Dragoon weapons from the Villain Codex, early firearms that trade an reduced critical for actual ammo capacity.

To explore the topic, try this: Swashbuckler (Musketeer) 1 is a good basis by giving Grit and the necessary Deed, along with Weapon Finesse.
Follow that by a block of Occultist (Panoply Savant) 2/ Fighter (Trench Fighter) 5 (Which can be repeated later on).
Actually a bit ironic, as this works by switching between modern and archaic mode by using a Gun Buckler in the off hand and the Shield Brace feat to use a rifle with an attached bayonet in the main hand.

[grarrrg]

level 1 spellslinger, level 3 trench fighter, level 6 gun chemist/sacrament alchemist. Level 10 grand Marshall.

Was really more of a thought experiment to make a competent gun user without any levels of gunslinger.
Competent enough that if you couldn't take Gunslinger levels it'd work well enough as a replacement.
Gunslinger is just a VERY front-loaded class though, that if you can take even 1 level you should.


Also my first idea in this thread was based off of a misinterpretation of the rules. My new idea is level 2 spellslinger (for reloading hands), level 17 gun tank/pistolero, and level 1 witch (for prehensile hair).

Neither Reloading Hands, nor Prehensile Hair is ideal.
Reloading Hands is a Standard to cast, only lasts Rounds=Level, and only reloads one barrel/round. So unless you bother getting and juggling a decent caster level Wand or something, it won't be worth much.

Prehensile Hair (the Hex) only lasts Minutes=Witch Level (and must be used by Minute), so it's only good for 1 fight/day.
If you meant White Haired archetype, see my post above.

Not trying to dash your ideas, it's just that there's a lot of "gun stuff" that _looks_ like it would be useful, but falls short.
There are a couple other generally better 'reloading tricks', but aren't compatible with an actual Shield strapped to your arm (Juggler Bard, Gun Twirling feat).
As stupid as it is, Alchemist 2 and growing a 3rd arm really is one of the best options. The other one that gets brought up is Tiefling/Vanara for a Tail.


You might also want to check the Dragoon weapons from the Villain Codex, early firearms that trade an reduced critical for actual ammo capacity.
Dragoon stuff looks like a decent mid-level option. Bit more expensive than regular stuff at low levels. Higher levels would burn through the 3 shots fast enough that it'd be more efficient to carry a variety pack of guns then bother to reload.

[Jackalias]

"not trying to dash your ideas, it's just that there's a lot of "gun stuff" that _looks_ like it would be useful, but falls short.
There are a couple other generally better 'reloading tricks', but aren't compatible with an actual Shield strapped to your arm (Juggler Bard, Gun Twirling feat).
As stupid as it is, Alchemist 2 and growing a 3rd arm really is one of the best options. The other one that gets brought up is Tiefling/Vanara for a Tail."

Yeah, the main reason I'm trying to make these is that going straight gunslinger seems a bit underwhelming, and I'm trying to think up a way to actually use the shield proficiencies that Gun Tank gives you regardless of race. (barring growing an additional arm, that skeeves me out for some reason.)

I'm gonna change the second build to have a level of gunslinger rather than spellslinger.

[Jackalias]

In my search to create strange gun using combinations I stumbled across the idea of combining the artillery team feat with the Eldritch guardians ability to share weapon feats with it's familiar. Would this work?

Also would the shared training let my familiar reload my gun?

[Thunder999]

If you want fast movement a quick dip in urban bloodrager gets you a rage that can boost your dex instead of your strength to go with it (urban barbarian sadly trades out fast movement, but that's fine because bloodragers are cooler anyway)

[grarrrg]

In my search to create strange gun using combinations I stumbled across the idea of combining the artillery team feat with the Eldritch guardians ability to share weapon feats with it's familiar. Would this work?

Also would the shared training let my familiar reload my gun?

The basics seem to check out, but;

Gray area: Proficiencies gained from classes aren't feats, and wouldn't be shared with Shared Training. You'd have to actually take the correct Weapon Prof feat.

No go: Artillery Team ends with "This feat does not allow you and your ally to act simultaneously on the same initiative." which means you'd only get 1 attack/round, as your Familiar couldn't reload during your turn.

[Jackalias]

Gray area: Proficiencies gained from classes aren't feats, and wouldn't be shared with Shared Training. You'd have to actually take the correct Weapon Prof feat.

"Eh, it gives a weapon proficiency as the example so I'm pretty sure it's gray enough for me to convince a GM. As opposed to outright houseruling like my other ideas."

No go: Artillery Team ends with "This feat does not allow you and your ally to act simultaneously on the same initiative." which means you'd only get 1 attack/round, as your Familiar couldn't reload during your turn.

"Then what's the point of the feat if you don't mind me asking?"


Final builds:

Level 17 pistolero/gun tank, level 3 Eldritch guardian/mutagen warrior.

level 1 gunslinger, level 3 trench fighter, level 6 gun chemist/sacrament alchemist. Level 10 grand Marshall.

[grarrrg]

"Then what's the point of the feat if you don't mind me asking?"

You'd have to ask the guy that designed it. Presumably "big damage sniping" or some such was the intent (and some feats are just poor regardless of intent).
Gunslinger's Dead Shot deed, or the Vital Strike feat(s) let you turn multiple attacks into one big attack. Both abilities multiply just the damage dice, and a Large Musket has quite the nice damage die. Large Musket does 3d6 per shot, hitting with all attacks on a 16+ Bab character means you're doing 12d6+bonuses with that one shot.

Realized another issue with Eldritch Guardian+Artillery Team: Even with Rapid Reload and using Cartidges, you could at best get Reloads down to a Move action. So even ignoring the "can't act simultaneous" part you still couldn't go full-on Full-Attack.

[Florian]

"Then what's the point of the feat if you don't mind me asking?"

Sniper builds. Use Squire to get a Gunner Squire cohort, get into the Vital Strike and Devastating Strike feat lines, that will generate respectable damage while still allowing to use the Sniping rules to stay hidden.

[Jackalias]

Now that I've decided this build needs a familiar what type do you think would work best? It needs hands obviously, so maybe a monkey? Or a coral capuchin if I'm willing to spend a feat. And what archtype do you think I should apply to the familiar?