leadership alternatives

[Mendicant]

I don't particularly like the leadership feat, as a DM. It's both incredibly powerful and also kind of limiting at the same time. For the most part, I just ignore it, and my players pick up henchmen and sidekicks organically during gameplay, sometimes as early as 1st level. This is mostly fine for us, but I'd like to put a little more systemic meat on those bones. Are there any good alternative systems I should look at?

[Quarian Rex]

One that I'm going to be working in is from ACKS (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/99123/Adventurer-Conqueror-King-System), where the number of henchmen you can maintain is limited to your Cha bonus and the Leadership feat adds 1 to that (as well as boosting morale in your kingdom, but that's another thing).

Mercenaries can be hired and an army can be trained regardless of feats so long as you have enough money. This just gives you a boost to the number of NPCs that you can probably actually count on.

[weckar]

So the average person (Cha +0 or worse) has no friends they can count on? Sounds about right.

[Mehangel]

If you are looking for an alternative to the leadership feat, I would recommend the Recruits (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/recruits/) feat, which is one of my personal favorites.

[Zaq]

So the average person (Cha +0 or worse) has no friends they can count on? Sounds about right.

Most people don’t need to “count on” other people in the kind of high fantasy life-or-death scenarios that a D&D PC tends to encounter on a daily basis, so that’s a thing.

Not saying that the proposed solution is particularly good or bad. Just being kind of contrary, honestly.

[BWR]

I don't particularly like the leadership feat, as a DM. It's both incredibly powerful and also kind of limiting at the same time. For the most part, I just ignore it, and my players pick up henchmen and sidekicks organically during gameplay, sometimes as early as 1st level. This is mostly fine for us, but I'd like to put a little more systemic meat on those bones. Are there any good alternative systems I should look at?

We sorta do both this and use Leadership. Picking up henchmen/followers/strays is a normal part of the game for some people, but not everyone wants to be limited to that or spend inordinate amounts of time organically gaining followers. Leadership was meant to replace the automatic attraction of followers that occurred in earlier editions. Friends, followers and allies gained during play are one thing but Leadership means you get a bunch of loyal folks without any stress. The biggest boon for having loyal followers is when building a domain. You have dependable troops, officers, functionaries and XOs for your domain, can leave them at home to take care of things or go on minor missions while you are out doing the important stuff. Two of my players' PCs have Leadership and we have never had a problem with it. Yes, it can be powerful. Yes, it can be limiting. Feature, not bug.

[chimaeraUndying]

Maybe use the hirelings system (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/goods-and-services/hirelings-servants-services/)?

[Mendicant]

We sorta do both this and use Leadership. Picking up henchmen/followers/strays is a normal part of the game for some people, but not everyone wants to be limited to that or spend inordinate amounts of time organically gaining followers. Leadership was meant to replace the automatic attraction of followers that occurred in earlier editions. Friends, followers and allies gained during play are one thing but Leadership means you get a bunch of loyal folks without any stress. The biggest boon for having loyal followers is when building a domain. You have dependable troops, officers, functionaries and XOs for your domain, can leave them at home to take care of things or go on minor missions while you are out doing the important stuff. Two of my players' PCs have Leadership and we have never had a problem with it. Yes, it can be powerful. Yes, it can be limiting. Feature, not bug.

Sure, and currently that's what we do as well. I guess what I'm looking for is something more along the lines of what Leadership replaced. As in, getting some loyal folks without any stress and also without spending a feat, which is a resource I'd prefer be spent on different kinds of things. I'm envisioning something more like initiative, which everybody gets and that you can spend a feat to improve.


So the average person (Cha +0 or worse) has no friends they can count on? Sounds about right.
Well, loyal henchmen, not friends. Henchmen in ACKS being different from a hireling/mercenary or a peer companion. Also, looking at the rules, your cap is actually 4 + CHA modifier, not just your CHA.