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rs2excelsior
2018-01-12, 01:46 PM
Linked this over from the simple RAW thread.

I'm looking at building a character, preferably a barbarian, who can use oversized weapons. Effectively dual-wielding larger weapons would be even better. Given that this (http://www.paperspencils.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Amiri.jpg) is the official artwork for a barbarian in Pathfinder (and the propensity for other ridiculously oversized weapons in their artwork), there seem to be surprisingly few options.

So it seems like if one picked up, for example, a large-sized longsword as a medium character, they can wield it in two hands and get a -2 penalty. Instead of 1d8 the large longsword does 2d6 damage--meaning it's exactly like wielding a medium greatsword, but with an attack penalty. It'd be better just to get a greatsword.

The Titan Mauler archetype is what I'm looking at currently. At 2nd level, you can wield a medium-sized 2H weapon as a 1H weapon, which seems... underwhelming? You can use a shield, sure, but you get a -2 to attack. You could also conceivably dual-wield 2H weapons (which is getting closer), treating each as a 1H weapon, which means a -6 penalty on both attacks if I'm figuring it right (-4 for not wielding a light weapon in your off hand, -2 for oversized weapon)--pretty hefty for a 2nd level character. Or -4 and -2 with a 2H weapon and a light weapon.

At 3rd level, you can use a large 2H weapon in two hands, but get an extra -4 for oversized weapon on top of the existing -2. But the penalty for wielding oversized weapons (all oversized weapons, presumably) goes down by 1, and by another 1 every 3 levels. So picking up a large-sized greatsword at level 3 gives you a -5 attack penalty? (-2-4+1) It would go to zero at 18th level, but at lower levels that seems crippling. Sure, you can use a large longsword in two hands with only a -1 penalty (and no penalty at 6th level), but that's identical to using a medium greatsword.

That said, a barbarian's high strength, rage boosts, and full BAB will help offset those penalties... but you're working from a disadvantage. Are there other options I've missed? Am I miscalculating how the penalties work?

(I am aware of the Impact weapon property, lead blades spell, and magic items that increase the effective size of your weapon. I'm looking for a character that picks up the biggest piece of steel he/she can carry and hits people with it. If I can stack impact on top of that... all the better.)

Drelua
2018-01-12, 02:01 PM
Attaching an Effortless Lace (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/effortless-lace/) to your weapon helps with the penalties. Other than that, I can't really think of anything. Titan Mauler takes a few levels to get good, but it does what you want. Paizo seems to think you should just take the penalty, even if it makes you weaker. Amiri's basically trading -2 attack for an average of 2 damage, which is not a good idea. I think they just wanted to copy Guts from Berserk.

Geddy2112
2018-01-12, 02:07 PM
Titan fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo-fighter-archetypes/titan-fighter/) can do the same thing with 2 handed weapons as well, but it is on the fighter chassis.

One of the more silly, although not always optimal things to do, is to 1 hand a 2 handed weapon by dipping two levels in titan mauler, then going into a class that requires 1 handed weapons like swashbuckler or magus.

For two weapon fighting, you can put effortless lace (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/effortless-lace/) on each weapon and mitigate the size penalty, but that only comes available at higher levels.

rs2excelsior
2018-01-12, 02:13 PM
Amiri's basically trading -2 attack for an average of 2 damage, which is not a good idea.

How do you figure that? That looks like a large-sized greatsword to me, which under normal circumstances she just couldn't wield.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.
So if she's a level 3 Titan Mauler with a large greatsword, that's a -5 penalty for an extra 3.5 damage (3d6 vs 2d6). If she's level 1 and it's a large longsword that she's wielding in 2 hands, that's a -2 penalty in exchange for... nothing.

I'm just not seeing how the penalties work out to anything worthwhile, until you get to higher levels.

Yanisa
2018-01-12, 02:45 PM
How do you figure that? That looks like a large-sized greatsword to me, which under normal circumstances she just couldn't wield.

Amiri has an official character sheet (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/npcCodex/iconic/amiri.html). She is using a large bastard sword.

rs2excelsior
2018-01-12, 03:00 PM
Amiri has an official character sheet (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/npcCodex/iconic/amiri.html). She is using a large bastard sword.

Hmm, okay. I hadn't thought about using a bastard sword. +3/2d8 at 1st level isn't bad...

Florian
2018-01-12, 03:02 PM
@rs2:

RAW offers the one-step rule, so certain things are already possible, like Amiri using a Lage Bastard Sword as a Two-hander with the usual malus.

Lvl 2 Expert
2018-01-12, 03:06 PM
EDIT: Fine.

Florian
2018-01-12, 03:15 PM
Goliaths (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/races/races-of-stone--82/goliath--13/index.html) (a medium sized race of giants) have a racial property called Powerful Build, which let's them use weapons of size category large.

Yes, because Goliaths are so 1PP for PF.

Baroncognito
2018-01-12, 03:22 PM
Tieflings have the option "Huge build" or something like that that allows them to use weapons one size category larger.

Edit: It's one of the variant Tiefling abilities that you "roll for" (read as ask "GM for permission to use instead of your spell-like ability"):

You have over-sized limbs, allowing you to use Large weapons without penalty.

Remuko
2018-01-12, 03:31 PM
Goliaths (a medium sized race of giants) have a racial property called Powerful Build, which let's them use weapons of size category large.

pretty sure that link is not OGL and thus not allowed here. I'd probably remove the link to be safe. Also its a link to 3.5 info and this is a Pathfinder thread.

Drelua
2018-01-13, 12:02 AM
I don't know, I'd say the 2 point on to-hit is a lot more valuable than the difference in die steps. Damage doesn't matter if you don't hit, and not many enemies at low levels can take a hit from a barbarian. I was 2 points away from one-shotting a minotaur with my 1st level barbarian once, and I didn't even crit...

Also, here's a fun thing; a Sun Blade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/specific-magic-weapons/sun-blade/) is the size of a bastard sword but it's as easy to wield as a short sword. Get one sized for a Huge character, and you can wield a huge bastard sword at a -4. With Titan Mauler, you can wield a 2 handed weapon for a large creature. A Gargantuan's character's short sword can be a large character 2-hander, so if you can get a sun blade made that size, you've got a medium character with gargantuan bastard sword damage. More if you get enlarged, and even more if you also get lead blades. I think that's 4d8, enlarge to 6d8, lead blades to 8d8? Of course, you can't afford this until like level 10, and there's a -6 penalty, mitigated by some class features of course

Florian
2018-01-13, 04:04 AM
I don't know, I'd say the 2 point on to-hit is a lot more valuable than the difference in die steps. Damage doesn't matter if you don't hit, and not many enemies at low levels can take a hit from a barbarian. I was 2 points away from one-shotting a minotaur with my 1st level barbarian once, and I didn't even crit...

Itīs more about gaining more dice instead of just larger dice values. Ex: Large Musket is 3d6 instead of medium 1d12, exactly what you want for Vital Strike. Similar when going for Gorumīs Blade and pushing the DC for the lingering damage feature of that feat.