anyone actually play a college of swords bard (or with one) - is it any good?

[Chugger]

The title pretty much says my question. I can read the description and imagine how it would or might not work, but I'm wondering if anyone can speak to sword college from experience. Thanks.

[Stormjack]

I looked at it but think Valor Bard is better than Swords. The Flourishes aren’t compelling until the level 14 feature. Valor gets Medium Armor and Shield proficiencies which beats Defensive Flourish. Add Defensive Duelist to a Valor Bard and it’s almist the same but with a higher AC because of the armor.

No, I haven’t played one. Right now I’m working on a Lore Bard/Vengeance Paladin build. I’d love your feedback on that if you have a minute.

[Chugger]

Thanks. Something feels "off" or "flimsy" about a sword build for bard - can't put my finger on it.

Was wonder if a 2-dip into pal for hvy armor, all weaps and choice of fs - and mostly DS - would work with going sword bard the rest of the way - maybe a 1 dip somewhere in hexblade to lose madness.

Okay lore bard veng pal. I've thought about this basic sort of build - I'm betting you get more power adding on sorc and not bard because of meta magic and sorc pts. If you're main purpose is to DS, sorc seems more powerful. But I can see veng pal 6 and lore bard x working, too. You got the aura and extra attack - and LOH and div sense and good pal spells. All good.

You'll at some point as you multi-class up get spell slots that you can use for DS - high level hurtful DS's. Like at pal 6/bard 5 you're really a lvl 8 caster overall - half the pal added to bard, which is full caster. So you'll have lvl 4 slots you can access but not fully use. You can't cast an actual lvl 4 spell but you can upcast one you know and cast it at lvl 4 - or DS. As you lvl these slots will be higher than you can DS - which caps at lvl 4 or 5 in terms of HD it adds. I guess you can burn a lvl 6 or 7 slot for a DS but only get max dice (I think it's 5d8, six if fighting undead). Or upcast.

But sorc lets you harvest these very high level slots and create many lower level slots, if I understand meta magic and sorc pts correctly.

Also, for pure power, what about going half elf and getting the elven accuracy feat? If you can attack with advantage (you have to think how you're going to get advantage often - warlocks using devils sight and darkness get it often, for example), you get to reroll one attack dice - essentially roll 3 times - increasing your chance of getting a crit. If you can get crit on 19 or 20 (from hexblade curse or a 3-dip into champion fi), you are critting 29% of the time. You can choose to DS after you see a crit, meaning you can do insane single target damage. Not sure if this helps you.

I guess you have to decide, if you're set on veng pal lore bard, what feat to get (if taking one) and what spells to steal and all that, but you got a long time to level up there - that's lvl 12 when you first get to steal.

What about just going pal 2 to get DS and a FS and then going valor bard 18? You get extra attack at lvl 8, which is late but not too late (lvls 5 6 and 7 will kind of suck) - this way you get up to lvl 9 spells, making you more competitive at higher lvls. Maybe. You lose the aura, which sucks, but very high lvl spells might make up for it.

[Requilac]

Someone in a current game I am playing actually is a college of swords bard. They are actually really good, although not obviously so. Especially the shenanigans you can get into with defensive flourish are overpowered. The level 7 swords bard i saw was able to survive for three rounds against two CR three monsters that had a DPR of 20 using defensive flourish. Alone. Slashing flourish is not always good, but it is useful for delivering the finishing blow to weaker enemies which don’t deserve a full attack to take them down. Very convenient in some cases, especially considering that the damage done by this feature does not rely on an attack roll. Mobile flourish is kind of niche, but depending on party composition you can get some great use out of it. If you are willing to dedicate all or most your inspiration dice to your flourishes, than a swords bard could be devastating . They do not look that great on paper, but in play they are actually quite powerful.

[Tanarii]

I've had two players with college of valor bards Playtest the swords bard to see if they wanted to permanently switch their (both Tier 2) characters over. Both desided to stick with Valor. It was superior for what they wanted.

Several players have started new Tier 1 sword bards and gotten them to level 3. They seem happy.

What I've gathered from the players so far is the two aren't really comparable. They're subclass is designed to do different things. Something like, Valor is an armored support guy, Swords is an offensive skirmisher. Or something. I haven't tried it myself or done a careful analysis of the two classes myself, or anything like that. In fact, I can't even recall what swords does right now.

[Talamare]

Sword Bard is best compared to as a Battlemaster Bard
Flourishes and Inspiration dice work almost exactly like the Battlemaster Maneuvers and Superiority dice

Except...
Inspiration Dice can be used to buff allies in a dozen different situations, Superiority dice is only used for Maneuvers
Bard has a dozen other things to do during battle, Battlemaster battles during battles.

Sword Bard vs Valor Bard
Remember that Valor can't give themselves Inspiration

So the Core difference between the 2, is that a Sword Bard is self reliant; while a Valor Bard relies on Allies.

I would also say one of the Core Issues with Bard is the lack of Subclass Features
They only get 3 total, instead of the Standard 4-5.
So all Bard Subclasses end up feeling insanely thin.

This isn't because they are a full caster either
Cleric gets 4-5
Sorcerer gets 4
Warlock gets 4
Wizard gets 4

[Requilac]

I would also say one of the Core Issues with Bard is the lack of Subclass Features
They only get 3 total, instead of the Standard 4-5.
So all Bard Subclasses end up feeling insanely thin.

This isn't because they are a full caster either
Cleric gets 4-5
Sorcerer gets 4
Warlock gets 4
Wizard gets 4

Bards actually do get five sub-clas features, they simply get three of them at level 3. Keep in mind that some classes get multiple features per level, it is quite common, especially at lower levels. The swords bard gets the same amount of features as the sorcerer, warlock and wizard subclasses, it is just less spread out.

[Laserlight]

My copy of XGtE is with a friend, but as I recall, you only get the +AC flourish if you hit your target. Has anyone found that to be a problem? Or do you just rely on dual wield + extra attack to make sure you get three chances to hit?

[Requilac]

My copy of XGtE is with a friend, but as I recall, you only get the +AC flourish if you hit your target. Has anyone found that to be a problem? Or do you just rely on dual wield + extra attack to make sure you get three chances to hit?

You decide to use a flourish after the attack hits, not before you make the attack. Here is what the XGtE says...

“if a weapon attack that you make as part of this (attack) action hits a creature, you can use one of the following Blade Flourish options of your choice”

[DivisibleByZero]

I've played many types of Bards, and Blades are my favorite.