Spellthief recommendations

[Mike Miller]

One of my players wants to make a spellthief. He wants to have a mix of rogue abilities and arcane casting. Are there any good PrCs to point out for this class? Is sticking with just spellthief decent? The rest of the party is druid, swordsage, and mystic ranger (from dragon mag). Only 3.5 material. They are level 2, about to hit level 3.

[skunk3]

To me it looks as though the class itself is just right: https://dndtools.net/classes/spellthief/

It has rogue elements to it and does basically exactly what your friend wants.

[Long_shanks]

First, that link is not OGL, so you should remove it, skunk.
To the OP, look at arcane trickster and unseen seer. Both would benefit greatly from going to wizard before entering the PrC (and grabbing the Master Spellthief feat).

[gorfnab]

Some light reading:
Primer to Spellthievery (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=12677)
Guide to Spellthieves (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?44299-Jack-Of-All-Trades-Fax-Celestis-Guide-to-Spellthieves)
The Rogue Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?156350-3-5-The-Rogue-Handbook-A-Fistful-of-d6)
Sneak Attacking Spellcasters (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1240)

My usual recommendation for a rogue based arcane caster is this:
Rogue (or Spellthief with the feat Master Spellthief, CS) 1/ Wizard (Spontaneous Divination ACF, CC) 5/ Unseen Seer (with the feat Practiced Spellcaster, CA) 10/Arcane Trickster 4
This build gives you 9th level spells, decent amount of skills, many Rogue type options, and good amount of sneak attack (especially with the spell Hunter's Eye, PHBII gained through the Advanced Learning feature of Unseen Seer).

The problem I see with Spellthief is how relevant will their abilities be in the game. Will they be able to find enemies to steal spells from or will they end up being a mediocre skill monkey with some minor spellcasting.

[Fizban]

If they want a mix of rogue and casting, I would recommend a rogue/caster build into one of the rogue/caster PrCs. A rogue 3/caster 2 has equal sneak attack and better spells than a spellthief, as well as Evasion or other ACFs, and it only goes up from there once you enter a sneak+casting PrC and get whatever rogue-ish features are found therein. Even an Assassin has faster spell progression, since Assassin gets 4th level spells in 10 levels rather than 20 (or, ECL 12 vs 14). An int based class (wizard, beguiler, duskblade, or Assassin itself) lets you get more skills for your trouble, while even entering via battle sorc to preserve light armor casting will still give comparable spells known over time as you pass 4th level spells.

Spellthief is a class that doesn't want to PrC, it just wants to stay single classed so it can do its unique thing, which is steal spells. Stealing spells (and other magic stuff as you level up) is a totally worthwhile thing to do, even if you just steal them from your own party so the spells get cast faster, but it comes at the cost of sneak attack and other rogue features, and the half-casting with limited spells known is just not great. Be a Spellthief because you want to be a Spellthief is my advice, otherwise you're likely to be disappointed.


For a mix of "rogue" abilities and "arcane casting," I'd almost recommend Factotum- more skill and "skill" access, and Arcane Dilettante actually starts beating out Bard on higher level spells after 10th. But most people who want a certain ability expect it to be available all the time and repeatable without gear, while Factotum is one-shot for everything and uses gear for lower level effects.

[Anthrowhale]

The tricky thing about a Spellthief is that you really want 9 levels to be able to use stolen 9th level spells.

[Zaq]

If you want to be an actual Spellthief (stealing spells, stealing spell effects, stealing spell-like abilities, stealing resistances, etc.), then only more Spellthief levels make you better at being a Spellthief, so you should stay single-classed (or darn close to it; I can see a potential argument for MAYBE dipping one level in something for HiPS or a similar SA-enabling ability, but even then, it's not a guarantee to be a good idea). The feat Master Spellthief is a trap for this kind of character (except as a way to boost your CL) because it lets you steal higher-level spells but doesn't let you hold (and therefore use) higher-level spells, and it doesn't increase your ability to steal SLAs or spell effects or anything else.

If you want to be a caster with some Rogue-style skills and some Sneak Attack (and you aren't interested in actually stealing spells), Spellthief is okay, but you're likely to have a stronger character by going for an Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster build (usually with a Wizard or Beguiler base).

If you want to be a Rogue with some magic up your sleeve (and you want more emphasis on Rogue than on caster and you don't care about stealing spells), go Psychic Rogue.

[Gruftzwerg]

The problem I see with Spellthief is how relevant will their abilities be in the game. Will they be able to find enemies to steal spells from or will they end up being a mediocre skill monkey with some minor spellcasting.

Well, if there aren't any enemy casters, there's still the parties druid^^.
Especially if the druid goes for some of the nice "personal only" spells that would enhance the spellthiefs combat skills too.