Saves vs checks

[Seano123456]

Hi i would like to ask a dnd question. Can you explain checks vs saves as i feel i should be getting saving throughs and not checks. For instance i chose to slide down a large slide on my shield and so needed to make a dex check to see if i can balance on the shield. Then i came to a wall 400 ft down and becoz i chose to jump off i was asked to make another dex check or smash into the wall and take alot of damage. However i feel that this should have been a saving through for damage however my dm insists that if i chose to do something then i make a check but it is related to damage so i think saving through can you please clarify?

[Tiadoppler]

A good rule of thumb:

A skill check (like Dexterity(acrobatics)) happens when you do something.
A saving throw happens when something happens to you and you try to avoid it.




Balancing on a sliding shield would be a Dexterity(Acrobatics) check.
Jumping off a shield and landing safely would be another Dexterity(Acrobatics) check.
Smashing into the wall would probably by a Constitution Saving Throw to reduce or avoid damage.

Your DM says you have the chance to use an action to avoid a future consequence. You haven't hit the wall yet, you can choose not to by jumping off the shield.

[LeonBH]

Your DM was justified. Saves don't prevent or reduce damage, they are "instincts" or "reflexes" where you try to resist an effect forced on you.

For example, you do not take damage when subject to Reverse Gravity, unless you hit a ceiling or hit the ground (via released concentration). But there is no save against the damage as that is just falling damage. The save was made to grab on to any tiny branch or root and avoid being lifted off the floor I'm the first place.

Checks are made in response to actions you take. And IMO, that jump should have been Athletics, not Dex.

[Tiadoppler]

And IMO, that jump should have been Athletics, not Dex.

I agree with everything except that. If it was a long jump, or a high jump to grab a ledge above you, I'd agree.

It sounds like this specific circumstance is more of a 'drop safely off the moving object and roll to a stop without taking damage' which sounds closer to balance, tumbling, or mitigating falling damage to me. That choice is certainly up to the DM who knows the exact shape of the staircase/location of the wall/what the PC is doing.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I agree with the others; I'd have called for checks in this situation. Saves tend to happen when you something is inflicted on you and you have to respond to it.

Both are Dex for me, since they're about balance, reflexes, timing, sticking the landing, etc.

[LeonBH]

I agree with everything except that. If it was a long jump, or a high jump to grab a ledge above you, I'd agree.

It sounds like this specific circumstance is more of a 'drop safely off the moving object and roll to a stop without taking damage' which sounds closer to balance, tumbling, or mitigating falling damage to me. That choice is certainly up to the DM who knows the exact shape of the staircase/location of the wall/what the PC is doing.

You can certainly look at it that way. Though having just watched Jake Gylenhal (sp?) jump and roll off a moving train in the movie Source Code, I'd argue damage taken is inevitable if the shield was moving fast enough and the ground was hard enough. No amount of grace/dexterity would prevent that.

But you're right. This was a tumble check, not a jump check. That's in the realm of Dex.

[guachi]

The examples for Athletics checks almost always involve motion. Either moving or preventing motion. Acrobatics is usually about balance so I'd say balancing on a shield is an Acrobatics (Dexterity) check as it sounds equivalent to the example of "staying upright on a rocking ship's deck" from the PHB.

[djreynolds]

Saves, checks, and skills are really all ability checks... it just whether you get to add proficiency to it

Telekinesis involves a strength check without proficiency, though I think a champion or bard could possibly add half

IMO a check is whether you have the raw ability or not, and IMO there is no training or skill set involved here, if there is your DM needs to change it to acrobatics.

I might see going Legolas down hill with a shield as an Dexterity (acrobatics) check. He sure looked proficient doing it

Saves are similar, its usually only 2 you happen to have proficiency in

I have similar issues with checks, like when a wave rocks your boat, IMO say a monk or rogue proficient in acrobatics should be allowed to add his proficiency to that check to keep standing up.

Alas it is up to your DM.