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ProsecutorGodot
2018-01-14, 08:56 AM
I've been stuck on trying to come up with a proper foundation for this character concept. The more I think about it the more MAD it seems and I'm not sure if I can make it work within the specifications that I'd like, so I'd like to see if anyone here can help out with this.

I really like the idea of a Redemption Paladin and I'd like to make it work as a supporting class, focused around the level 7 feature that allows you to take the damage that an ally would have taken. I'd like for the character to also have strong social skills to really emphasize the approach towards redeeming people who can be saved from evil.

Must Haves
-Persuasion, for diplomacy and convincing people to accept goodness
-Insight, to know whether someone truly wants to be redeemed
-At least 7 levels in Paladin
-Human
-Scores have to work with Point Buy or Standard Array, I'd like to be able to take this character to almost any table.

Wants
-Expertise in Insight and Persuasion
-Noble Background
-Healing abilities
-Hexblade 1,2 or 3 to alleviate madness slightly and give a ranged option to attack

My current plan is... Not amazing. It's pretty difficult to check a lot of these boxes and still have decent scores.

Point Buy

Str - 13 (5)
Dex - 13 (5)
Con - 14 (4)
Int - 8
Wis- 12 (4)
Cha-16 (9)
Resilient Constitution, +1 Con +1 Cha Racial Bonus.

Paladin X, Rogue 1, Warlock 1
Expertise in Persuasion and Insight from Rogue. Hexblade Warlock to prevent total MADness. First two ASI are almost certainly locked into Cha.

Cons
-Build comes online pretty late, level 8-9 soonest
-Requires Hexblade to function in combat
-Hexblade fluff doesn't mesh with Redemption Paladin fluff
-Str and Dex are at minimum required to multiclass so Plate Armor isn't an option and Medium Armor doesn't get a +2
-Very little actual healing outside of Lay on Hands
-Being a Cleric would almost certainly be better as a supporting class

This is about as far as I've managed to take it and it still looks pretty sub par compared to rolling straight cleric as a support. Any advice?

Snowbluff
2018-01-14, 09:05 AM
I don't remember if Redemption Paladin requires a reaction, but if you go Lore Bard you get Cutting Words, which can keep allies safe, and some more spell slots for some buffs. I don't remember if PoR gives healing word, either,but Bard does, as well as a bunch of other good healing spells.

ProsecutorGodot
2018-01-14, 09:45 AM
I don't remember if Redemption Paladin requires a reaction, but if you go Lore Bard you get Cutting Words, which can keep allies safe, and some more spell slots for some buffs. I don't remember if PoR gives healing word, either,but Bard does, as well as a bunch of other good healing spells.

The level 7 feature is a reaction but the range being only 10-30 feet might make cutting words worth considering.

The issue with Bard, which I would normally prefer over Rogue, is that it takes a 3 level dip instead of 1 for Rogue which delays things even longer.

Snowbluff
2018-01-14, 01:08 PM
The level 7 feature is a reaction but the range being only 10-30 feet might make cutting words worth considering.

The issue with Bard, which I would normally prefer over Rogue, is that it takes a 3 level dip instead of 1 for Rogue which delays things even longer.

Well, consider that Paladin isn't really that strong after level 6, and for you level 7, which isn't that good if you replace it with cutting words. Plus, Bard, unlike rogue, gives more spell slots for smiting.

Nidgit
2018-01-14, 02:43 PM
You're not too MAD if you go Lore or Glamour Bard instead of Rogue and Warlock. You can also take Magic Initiate for EB if you're concerned about range.

Another option: Paladin X/Inquisitive X. No cantrips and you can't smite from range, but going Dexadin makes bows reasonably effective and the Inquisitive subclass boosts Perception, Investigation, and Insight. 13/14/14/8/10/16 with the same Resilient (Con) from the start.

MxKit
2018-01-14, 02:52 PM
Hmm, I don't think you'd actually need to be a Hexblade; you're not that SAD. You need Dex at 13, but your focuses are Strength, Constitution (probably even more than Strength), and Charisma (tertiary focus).

Going Vuman, I'd actually recommend:

STR: 13
DEX: 13
CON: 16
INT: 9
WIS: 10
CHA: 14
Sentinel, +1 Con +1 Cha racial bonus.

Paladin X, Rogue 1

Expertise in Persuasion and Insight, use your first ASI to raise your Strength somehow, either via feat (Heavy Armor Master is a nice get for you) or alongside Dex (for higher Initiative modifier) or Int (just to wash out any negitive modifiers, if that matters to you). Your second ASI can bring Strength up to 16, leaving you with a decent starting attack and tanking abilities, good Charisma (and you won't need it super high due to Expertise)...

Once you get Strength up where you want it you might want to focus on Constitution or even putting a bit more into Wisdom, but you'll be at a pretty good spot by level 5. Remember that you'll be able to use chain mail and a shield from the very start, which is a decent enough 18 AC, and you'll be able to get plate by lv8, jumping immediately up to 20 AC, or staying at 18 AC and being able to two-hand. You wouldn't be hitting as hard as you could, but what you said makes me feel that isn't totally your focus?

(Alternately, you can go Dex-based Paladin starting with your first ASI, take Medium Armor Master at some point, and still get a solid 19 AC with half plate and a shield by lv8, and 20 AC by lv12.)

Also, I'm gonna say you can definitely benefit from going up to at least Paladin 15; remember that while Protective Spirit only heals you, with that and Sentinel and a good AC/Heavy Armor Master and a decent Con score, you're going to be able to take a lot of hits that might have been going to your squishier teammates instead. And Paladin 18 makes your Aura of Protection a 30 ft radius. You could decently go Rogue 2 for Cunning Action to Dash, and to Disengage to specifically get to a more dangerous enemy, but I personally wouldn't muddy things with dipping too much more than that. Clerics will be able to heal more/better than you, but you've got decent healing with other solid support options.