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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Master Pugilist: a feat for unarmed combat



mr-mercer
2018-01-14, 02:27 PM
Hi all. I've been thinking about how few options for unarmed combat there are in 5e (your choices are go dex and fairly mystical with a Monk or go with underwhelming damage with Tavern Brawler) and thought I'd try to figure out a way to make unarmed combat more viable. I decided to do this through a feat that was originally a mashup of Tavern Brawler and the Monk's Martial Arts feature, but my initial edits have stripped away pretty much everything tavernicious about it. Please let me know if there's anything I could do to improve it.

Master Pugilist
Having trained your body to master unarmed combat, you gain the following benefits:
*Your unarmed strike deals 1d4 + your Strength modifier for damage. This increases to 1d6 at 5th level, 1d8 at 11th level and 1d10 at 17th level.
*If you aren't weaing armour or wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier.
*If you are unarmed and aren't wearing armour or wielding a shield, your unarmed strikes count as light for the purpose of two-weapon fighting.

JNAProductions
2018-01-14, 02:49 PM
Hi all. I've been thinking about how few options for unarmed combat there are in 5e (your choices are go dex and fairly mystical with a Monk or go with underwhelming damage with Tavern Brawler) and thought I'd try to figure out a way to make unarmed combat more viable. I decided to do this through a feat that was originally a mashup of Tavern Brawler and the Monk's Martial Arts feature, but my initial edits have stripped away pretty much everything tavernicious about it. Please let me know if there's anything I could do to improve it.

Master Pugilist
Having trained your body to master unarmed combat, you gain the following benefits:
*Your unarmed strike deals 1d4 + your Strength modifier for damage. This increases to 1d6 at 5th level, 1d8 at 11th level and 1d10 at 17th level.
*If you aren't weaing armour or wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier.
*If you are unarmed and aren't wearing armour or wielding a shield, your unarmed strikes count as light for the purpose of two-weapon fighting.

So, you gain the total Unarmored Defense as a Barbarian, the entire Monk damage die progression, and most of Martial Arts (if you manage to nab the TWF style)?

That's WAY TOO MUCH in a feat.

mr-mercer
2018-01-14, 03:04 PM
Okay, so are we saying remove unarmoured defence, modifying the fists counting as light weapons to always be 1d4 ala PAM instead of scaling, maybe at a stretch scale back the scaling a couple of levels?

Lalliman
2018-01-14, 03:06 PM
I'm just going to be a douche and start quoting myself whenever this comes up.


Don't mindlessly give the monk's damage progression (or something resembling it) to a different class. It doesn't make sense. The monk's damage die progression is part of what makes them become more powerful with level. This is not the case for a barbarian: the barbarian is assumed to simply have a standard damage die from the start, and his damage progression comes in the form of Brutal Critical and the Rage damage bonus. Giving the barbarian a scaling damage die just makes the class back-loaded.

This quote is about the barbarian, but it applies to every non-monk martial. Just give a d6 damage die, that's what it needs to compete with weapons users.

That point aside, I don't think the power level is out of line. Getting a d6 damage die and the ability to TWF with unarmed strikes provides no actual mechanical benefit. It's just a thematic reskin that very occasionally benefits you in cases where you might get disarmed or where weapons aren't an option. So the only real benefit given is the barbarian's Unarmored Defense. Which admittedly is powerful: at high level it can give you 3 higher AC than you would have with light armour, assuming you have the ASIs for it. But is it too much for the cost of a full feat? Meh.

One thing that is unfortunate about it is that it doesn't open up a whole lot of options. It's still basically restricted to Dex-only, because a Str character would either have to miss out on the TWF aspect, or take a big hit to AC. I would've liked to see it work with Str characters somehow.

mr-mercer
2018-01-14, 03:16 PM
In all fairness, quoting yourself when you've been right about something before can only save time. I can definitely see where you're coming from with the anti-scaling argument and do also think that switching to a straight-up d6 for damage would put it in line with other light weapons. The unarmoured defence thing might work better if it's instead a higher base number with only the dex modifier added to it, though I've only just thought of that now so I'm not sure about what number you'd use in that instance.

I'm confused by your statement about strength characters, though: I'm pretty sure dex doesn't inherently have any bearing on TWF or light weapons. Are you thinking of finesse weapons there, or is there something about it that I haven't considered?

EDIT: Never mind that last section: I've just reread your post and understand now. That definitely is a limiting factor, no doubt about it. I'll need to put some more thought into that.