Help with a Paladin!

[Lisselys]

Hi guys, I'd love some help with a Paladin I'm gonna play in a game where my Wizard died (:smallmad:)
I start at level 6, and my Dm agreed to let me stack Oath of vengeance and Chosen one (the latter is the most important for me)

20 point buy
Aasimar Angel-Blooded
Str 18 (15+2 racial + 1 lvl 4 advancement)
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 20 (16 + 2 racial + 2 headband)

Feats:
Fey foundling
Power attack
BattleCry
I have Outlander Exiled and Dangerously Curious as traits (The first one is pretty much locked since I MUST take a trait from the runelords AP)
I'm planning on getting Angel blooded on 7th, Improved critical on 9th level and angelic wings at 11.

I've got a +1 Scimitar and a +1 heavy shield (Pretty locked on the sword and shield stuff, Rp wise. I know a two handed weapon is better, but still... I love it so much!)
I got an headband of alluring charisma and a sleeve of many garments.

As a familiar I selected an Ioun Wyrd with the Good Domain power, embedded with a Dusty Rose prism cracked stone (+1 init), a Dark blue romboid Cracked (+1 perception and sense motive) and a magenta prism cracked stone (+2 to a skill, changeable every morning).
As Mercies I selected Sickened and Dazed, as spells Wrath, Hero's Defiance and Protection from Evil

Do you have any suggestions? Does this seem solid? Thanks for the replies!!

We have a barbarian, a Warpriest and a Gunslinger in our group, plus another player still has to provide his new character (He died aswell)

[Snowbluff]

Ah, Aasimar for wings, huh? I'm partial to tiefling. Demon Spawn Tiefling gets Str and Cha bonus, and the favored class bonus is +1 to healing yourself with LoH. With 20 levels of paladin and your hand Fey Foundling feat, that's like 9d6+38.

[Lisselys]

Yeah, pretty much the wings are what sold the Aasimar for me. Not having to rely on spells/items to deal with flying creatures is pretty strong imho.

Bonus: The party is now Magus (Eldritch Archer), Barbarian, Warpriest and Gunslinger

[Geddy2112]

Are you sure you want UMD as a class skill? it is handy sure, but between it and ranks needed for battle cry you don't have ranks for anything else. If you had a bunch of scrolls and wands that you needed to use a lot I could see it as handy, but unless you are doing that I would pass for another trait.

With both hands full you won't be able to LoH yourself, even though you can have your familiar do it for 2x the uses. I would strongly suggest a non sword/board for this reason. Or just a buckler maybe?

Dazed is a decent mercy but you can't use it on yourself, although I suppose with your familiar using it on you it is a really strong choice.

Good spell choices, but remember you can always prepare something else if you need an out of combat spell or whatever.

[Awakeninfinity]

You only have a speed of 20 ft when flying in medium or heavy armor; also you have poor mobility (-4 on fly skill checks; and armor check penalties still apply) and according to paizo's reference document; you need to be able to fly naturally to put ranks in the skill. I'd consider a rebuild into alight armor using, Dex Aasimar racial variant. Azata Blooded might work (typical alignment doesn't mean always) and you can make a Dex sword and board work with a Darkwood Heavy Shield.

Edit: forgot a few words.

[Lisselys]

Are you sure you want UMD as a class skill? it is handy sure, but between it and ranks needed for battle cry you don't have ranks for anything else. If you had a bunch of scrolls and wands that you needed to use a lot I could see it as handy, but unless you are doing that I would pass for another trait.

With both hands full you won't be able to LoH yourself, even though you can have your familiar do it for 2x the uses. I would strongly suggest a non sword/board for this reason. Or just a buckler maybe?

Dazed is a decent mercy but you can't use it on yourself, although I suppose with your familiar using it on you it is a really strong choice.

Good spell choices, but remember you can always prepare something else if you need an out of combat spell or whatever.

I do not need the ranks for BattleCry since I took it at lvl 5 when I have a BAB of +5 (So no need of 5 ranks in perform)
As for the LoH, you are absolutely correct and I did not even realize that. I should talk to my DM and see if he allows me to do it with a Heavy Shield, or just go for the RAW route doing it with a Light shield for just a measle -1 to AC (Still, OUCH!)
Thanks for the tips and the correction tho!

[Lisselys]

You only have a speed of 20 ft when flying in medium or heavy armor; also you have poor mobility (-4 on fly skill checks; and armor check penalties still apply) and according to paizo's reference document; you need to be able to fly naturally to put ranks in the skill. I'd consider a rebuild into alight armor using, Dex Aasimar racial variant. Azata Blooded might work (typical alignment doesn't mean always) and you can make a Dex sword and board work with a Darkwood Heavy Shield.

Edit: forgot a few words.

So you're saying that it is a waste of feats? Even though it is a -10 to the checks I could still dump some points into it.
Going for a Dex build would be too feat intensive or am I wrong?

[Awakeninfinity]

So you're saying that it is a waste of feats? Even though it is a -10 to the checks I could still dump some points into it.
Going for a Dex build would be too feat intensive or am I wrong?
No; your not wrong on that point; I just wanted to make sure that you were aware of all the penalties and was offering a suggestion on what I would do to overcome them. I should have emphasized that part; I apologize. You know your game and GM better than we ever could; so if you think it's best- than go for it. Just that with only 2 sp/level it will be difficult to close that penalty gap and meet the DC's reliably without Dex.

Edit: Does your GM allow custom magic items? If so-called ask them if they could help you price out a ring that improves the fly skill.

[Florian]

@Lisselys:

Not very impressive Paladin build, sorry. Runelords is nearly pure dungeon crawl, so the ability to fly is very unimportant and definitely not worth the feat investment.

Sword´n Board can be made into a viable combat style for a Paladin, especially with a high crit weapon, but that needs to go for Shield Master and Bashing Finish, so can be a bit feat intensive.

[Lisselys]

No; your not wrong on that point; I just wanted to make sure that you were aware of all the penalties and was offering a suggestion on what I would do to overcome them. I should have emphasized that part; I apologize. You know your game and GM better than we ever could; so if you think it's best- than go for it. Just that with only 2 sp/level it will be difficult to close that penalty gap and meet the DC's reliably without Dex.

Edit: Does your GM allow custom magic items? If so-called ask them if they could help you price out a ring that improves the fly skill.

I could probably ask him to get a +x item to fly. I am very grateful about the suggestions, so don't worry! The more criticism I get the better it is, since I tend do be very stuck on flavour things and this is my first melee character EVER. Also, a nonmagical one. I'm pretty much used to just magic things away so I'm pretty incompetent on the building side of things.


Not very impressive Paladin build, sorry. Runelords is nearly pure dungeon crawl, so the ability to fly is very unimportant and definitely not worth the feat investment.

Sword´n Board can be made into a viable combat style for a Paladin, especially with a high crit weapon, but that needs to go for Shield Master and Bashing Finish, so can be a bit feat intensive.
So you'd suggest to simply rebuild it as a high dex character? Since in this setup I don't know how to get TWF.

Is it better to drop the shield altogether and go for a Two Handed Weapon?
And, if i got that route, I don't need to basically change any feat right?
Since power attack is a must, and BattleCry is still a very useful Feat. Maybe i should go Furious focus next.

As for the wings, as of now we just fought the Ghast in the Mansion and the ability to fly was really a boon, with the bats and before that the imp. Not really a must have, but being helpless against a ranged character is not my style. Also, we lack a full caster so having means to not rely on items and free me up for more magic items is really important.

[Lisselys]

Also, to expand on the topic: Is the familiar choice adequate? Would you have picked something different?

[Florian]

@Lisselys:

Puh, where to start?

CHA is less useful than you think it is, especially in the 1-10 level bracket because of the high amount of diminishing returns. (Think about it, the feat Extra Lay on Hands is "worth" four points of CHA)

A two-handed weapon is basically good because of the low feat investment and high power floor, while other, more feat intensive fighting styles will have the higher power ceiling. What's better will depend on how many feats you will need for thing outside the fighting style, and also what combat role you aim for.

You sound like you want to combine "tanking" and "healing support". Your Paladin just doesn't pose a threat compared to the other heavy hitters in your party and is also pretty slow, being stuck in a full plate without any mitigating factors like the Fighter would have. You are a Paladin and Smite works with bows and certain spells, making you a potent threat, but, alas...

So why do you need Fey Foundling? Especially when you don't go Oradin? I don't even talk about Battle Cry, because you have the aura and the rest is of the level of a Bless...

The Ioun Wryd is.. just weird. Your god sends you a personal minion to guide you, and it is one that has to be crafted by a skilled Wizard and that you actually have to buy (Did you include that in your WBL)? Wouldn't fly at my table on the "fluff" level. Functional, it ain´t great either. At 7th, when you get Improved Familiar, then you have to chose one fitting to your deity and that will be the main form from then on. Try to use a base that can act as a "scouting form" (hawk, eagle, bat) and then use a Cassisian or Harbinger as "micro-cleric".

[Snowbluff]

Also, to expand on the topic: Is the familiar choice adequate? Would you have picked something different?

It's basically the only good choice. PF simply doesn't have 3.5's range of useful improved options. No Hippogriffs for you!

I would get a wayfinder, though. It's basically a free bonus.

Also Fey Foundling is a fine feat. It's pure EHP for a Paladin. :p

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Florian
Runelords is nearly pure dungeon crawl, so the ability to fly is very unimportant….

I can’t really fathom this, unless you played in a radically different version of Runelords than I did.

We spent more of our time aboveground than below, and when my character was able to fly it made all the difference, in particular when we were scouting out a certain fortress to attack. In that case it wasn’t “unimportant,” it was vital to planning our strategy. And there were any number of other times when I dearly wished I could be flying—including some of the underground sections.

I really can’t think of any time I’ve ever regretted having a character able to fly. For scouting, pursuit, disguise and general utility, flying is always worth it to me.

[Florian]

@Palanan:

Like all APs, this is basically a kick-in-the-door-style dungeon romp. Yes, you can take a more elaborate approach to playing it, but in my experience, that's exactly when PF starts breaking down and the tier problem starts to come up, something I don't want at my table. (ex: Suddenly you need to have certain abilities, like the mentioned flight, people try to pull a Batman wizard, and so on)