Best abilities for take 10

[LaRayna]

Hey folks, I just built a changeling assassin, and I plan to take a level of exemplar for its lovely benefits to skills. But I would like your guys opinion on what skills I should focus on as an assassin, such as craft alchemy for poison and hide and move silently, as well as you top six picks for useful skills to take ten on for an assassin. Now since I took changeling sub levels for rogue, I get diplomacy, intimidate, gather information, and sense motive as take tens already

[LaRayna]

Also, I forgot, they get bluff too. And I plan to order focus more on intimidate than diplomacy,

[weckar]

I'm not sure I understand. You can already take 10 in most skills, can't you?

[Celestia]

Use Magic Device

[LaRayna]

I'm not sure I understand. You can already take 10 in most skills, can't you?

I mean take ten even when under stress

[Inevitability]

Seconding Use Magic Device.

If you use your examplar skill ranks to put some points into Autohypnosis, being able to take 10 on what're essentially saving throws against quite common effects can be quite useful.

[LaRayna]

Seconding Use Magic Device.

If you use your examplar skill ranks to put some points into Autohypnosis, being able to take 10 on what're essentially saving throws against quite common effects can be quite useful.

Auto hypnosis has never really even come into play, and isn't that trained only anyway? As well as I don't think I've ever even used umd either

[ericgrau]

If you can't already take 10 for craft, gather information, hide and move silently 99% of the time, your DM is doing it wrong. Often everything else listed in post 1 too. Skills aren't that strong. If you need to take a bunch of class features just for your DM to not nerf something that's already so-so, maybe it's time to try something else. Or pick 2-4 skills with fixed RAW DCs to take 10 focus on and spam them. Because your DM might up the difficulty of anything else. Like tumble and UMD (see below).

Almost always the time you need auto take 10 is during combat. And for UMD. Tumble is a biggy. Spellcraft is nice. Concentration is great for spellcasters until about level 15, and most campaigns end by ~15. Ride is nice if you use it frequently, otherwise not. Most between combat skills weren't that great to begin with even if your DM wasn't nerfing them with no reliable take 10. So they may be better to dump rather than to blow auto 10s on. Bluff, diplomacy and intimidate are only great if abused with sketchy interpretations of the rules. Leading to a quick ban even if you actually believe that interpretation. Properly used they're so-so. But if you like the flavor of intimidate then dedicating 1 skill for flavor isn't the end of the world

Even if you don't have UMD and tumble as class skills you may want to look into cross class ranks and/or getting them as class skills. They're really useful if you can make them reliable with auto take 10. Then find a nice wand & scroll guide, and read the tumble skill.

[Tipsy_Pooka]

Use Magic Device

I didn't think you could take 10 with UMD.. unless you were, for example, a 4th level Warlock with an ability like "Deceive Item"

[LaRayna]

If you can't already take 10 for craft, gather information, hide and move silently 99% of the time, your DM is doing it wrong. Often everything else listed in post 1 too. Skills aren't that strong. If you need to take a bunch of class features just for your DM to not nerf something that's already so-so, maybe it's time to try something else. Or pick 2-4 skills with fixed RAW DCs to take 10 focus on and spam them. Because your DM might up the difficulty of anything else. Like tumble and UMD (see below).

Almost always the time you need auto take 10 is during combat. And for UMD. Tumble is a biggy. Spellcraft is nice. Concentration is great for spellcasters until about level 15, and most campaigns end by ~15. Ride is nice if you use it frequently, otherwise not. Most between combat skills weren't that great to begin with even if your DM wasn't nerfing them with no reliable take 10. So they may be better to dump rather than to blow auto 10s on. Bluff, diplomacy and intimidate are only great if abused with sketchy interpretations of the rules. Leading to a quick ban even if you actually believe that interpretation. Properly used they're so-so. But if you like the flavor of intimidate then dedicating 1 skill for flavor isn't the end of the world

Even if you don't have UMD and tumble as class skills you may want to look into cross class ranks and/or getting them as class skills. They're really useful if you can make them reliable with auto take 10. Then find a nice wand & scroll guide, and read the tumble skill.

I think everyone is misunderstanding what I meant. Outside of combat you can always take ten sure. I am specifically referring to the "can take a 10 even under circumstances where you normally couldn't such as under stress"

[ayvango]

Use Magic Device


When making a check with one of these skills, she can take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so
But stress and distractions would normally not prevent from taking 10 UMD because you could never take 10 on UMD regardless of stress and distractions.

[LaRayna]

But stress and distractions would normally not prevent from taking 10 UMD because you could never take 10 on UMD regardless of stress and distractions.

Why couldn't you ever take ten on UMD

[ottdmk]

You cannot take 10 with this skill.

Here's a link to Use Magic Device (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm) in the SRD. It's in the "Special" section.

You also can't help someone UMD by using Aid Another.

[Psyren]

The Warlock ability works because it calls out UMD specifically, but the wording is otherwise very similar to Exemplar's (which, rather than call out UMD specifically, tells you to "choose X skills.") It's a GM call whether you can choose UMD as one of your X skills and have it work like Deceive Item does; it's very possible to me that WotC simply forgot that you can't take 10 with UMD at all, even when there is nothing pressuring you, and that they intended Exemplar to be able to do this.

[Pleh]

Have you taken a look into Thief Acrobat (comp adv)?

4 levels gets you Skill Mastery to Take 10 on Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble even under stress (which combined with Fast Acrobatics basically means you can Parkour as more or less normal movement, even in combat).

Class has skill requirements for 8 ranks, so you can start taking the class after level 5. By the time you're taking 10, you're adding at least +13 to your check, so taking 10 is still getting you over 20. The game is starting to look a bit more like Assassin's Creed at that point.

[ottdmk]

I'm currently in a campaign where we have a Rogue 6/Thief Acrobat 4. (I talked him out of taking Thief Acrobat 5. Just didn't seem worth it.) The character is a lot of fun. No matter where on the battlefield he needs to be, he can get there and nobody touches him on the way. :smallbiggrin:

[ericgrau]

I think everyone is misunderstanding what I meant. Outside of combat you can always take ten sure. I am specifically referring to the "can take a 10 even under circumstances where you normally couldn't such as under stress"

You're trying to craft, hide and move silently in combat? For the 2nd one you'd need hide in plain sight...

Ok good for your DM if he's being good. In that case you still want UMD and tumble. Failure means a wasted turn and/or getting hurt so you really don't want to fail. So you should only attempt DCs that are auto success or near auto success. Before that meant passing on a 1. Now you may pass on a 10. So for such skills take 10 is worth almost as much as a +9.

For UMD you mainly want to hit 20-21 for wands and level 1 scrolls. 23 is kind of nice for better scrolls.

For tumble getting a 25 or so and a speed boosting item lets you practically ignore enemies. You move almost anywhere in the battlefield as if you were teleporting.

Other skills used during combat: balance, climb, concentration (spellcasting), knowledge, jump, ride, spellcraft. Sometimes spot, listen, swim. But at higher level magic items replace climb and maybe the other movement skills. I might go for balance and concentration next.