[Path of War] Fist Weapon-based Harbinger?

[Ignimortis]

I might be able to finally play a 3.5/PF game in the near future, and I was wondering if it's (fist-weapon based Harbinger (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/harbinger)) a viable build? I would welcome any advice, too. The group is rather low-OP, though, so crazy tricks aren't necessary. Basically, I'm thinking of problems with HTH attacks - they don't hit hard, and a DEX focus won't help matters either. TWF is an option, but I'm not sure about feat sinks, seeing as Harbingers don't get any bonus feats, and I'll have to grab Weapon Finesse ASAP.

[exelsisxax]

It is very unclear what you are requesting. You have said a lot of mutually exclusive things that lead to no particular end. "fist" isn't a thing, unarmed strikes and TWF are incompatible, unarmed strikes don't have a dex focus or requirement, and I don't even know what HTH is.

Please clearly state your question, along with any relevant stipulations that preclude certain answers.

[mistermysterio]

Guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kSmuTy1Hmg6w0lYSW7xoyJKRdAOgTDU1piejfEt37Yg/edit)

good place to start.

Otherwise, if you want to go hand-to-hand or fists, you should probably start by trading out one of your disciplines for broken blade. If you're worried about attacks without weapons not hitting hard, broken blade is one of the stronger disciplines in terms of damage.

What exactly are you trying to do with the character?

[Ignimortis]

Guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kSmuTy1Hmg6w0lYSW7xoyJKRdAOgTDU1piejfEt37Yg/edit)

good place to start.

Otherwise, if you want to go hand-to-hand or fists, you should probably start by trading out one of your disciplines for broken blade. If you're worried about attacks without weapons not hitting hard, broken blade is one of the stronger disciplines in terms of damage.

What exactly are you trying to do with the character?

Thank you, this guide actually answers all of my questions. This thread can be closed now :)

[Castilonium]

unarmed strikes and TWF are incompatible

What makes you say this?

[Daefos]

What makes you say this?

A character that’s exclusively fighting unarmed can’t use TWF because “unarmed strike” is considered a single weapon, no matter how many limbs you can use to deliver it.

Granted, you could TWF a one-handed weapon and an unarmed strike so it’s not truly incompatible, but that doesn’t seem to be what the OP is asking for.

[Castilonium]

A character that’s exclusively fighting unarmed can’t use TWF because “unarmed strike” is considered a single weapon, no matter how many limbs you can use to deliver it.

Granted, you could TWF a one-handed weapon and an unarmed strike so it’s not truly incompatible, but that doesn’t seem to be what the OP is asking for.

Learn something new every day! Thanks for the explanation.

[phlidwsn]

There's no official yes or no from Paizo, the closest is this unhelpful FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qie). There are arguments that Unarmed/Unarmed TWF is permitted, ie the Greater Brawler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo-rage-powers/brawler-greater/) rage power or chained Monk's Flurry both imply that Unarmed/Unarmed is a valid choice. This one ends up in "ask your GM" territory, though its hardly overpowered to allow it.

[exelsisxax]

There's no official yes or no from Paizo, the closest is this unhelpful FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qie). There are arguments that Unarmed/Unarmed TWF is permitted, ie the Greater Brawler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo-rage-powers/brawler-greater/) rage power or chained Monk's Flurry both imply that Unarmed/Unarmed is a valid choice. This one ends up in "ask your GM" territory, though its hardly overpowered to allow it.

Monk unarmed strike is incompatible with TWF. It explicitly calls out the fact that it doesn't necessarily use any particular limbs, and cannot be off-hand:

There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed

Using a different unarmed strike, like the one listed in the weapons page, and any IUS derived from it, does not carry this stipulation and does not necessarily bar you from using TWF. You shouldn't, but technically it is RAW.

[Ignimortis]

Hate to revive my own thread which I said could be closed, but can you TWF with two cesti (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/cestus/)? I now know that I can switch two disciplines around with two traits, and I was wondering if I should switch Scarlet Throne with Thrashing Dragon, since Pugilist Stance would combo with it very well on lower levels. I presume that since cesti are weapons, that would mean I'm no longer restricted by unarmed strike restrictions, and won't need to use a feat on Improved Unarmed Strike either?

[Elricaltovilla]

Threads around here don't close unless nobody posts in them for a couple months. As for your question, two cesti would be fine for two weapon fighting. They can each be enchanted separately, so they are clearly separate weapons.

Additionally, each trait can only be taken once, unless your DM changes that rule. Instead you join a Martial Tradition (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/martial-traditions/) to make your second swap.