Glaive Scout improvement

[Grmblmpft]

So im playing a Tiefling Scout with a Glaive (dont judge, I like the idea).

I have currently progressed to level 4 (tiefling 1/scout 3) and look for ideas to optimise for a tactical fighter and scout build.
My team consists of a 2h fighter and a monk both not min/max but the fighter will get quite tough in combat.
Our lv advancement is quite slow so no need for considering lvl 20 build but rather improve now.

As my DM allows any expansion as long as its lore friendly and not gamebreaking a have quite the choices.

going for spring attack im wonmdering if one of these 3 prcs could be fun:
-dervish (very high preqesites)
-shadowblade (sounds fun but weak af)
-nightsong enforcer (let the fighter do the dmg and be support?)

my build currently has:
LVL: tiefling 1/ scout 3

Att: 15/18/12/12/10/6

Feats: Dodge, ? (combat reflexes maybe)

Skills: maxed sneak and hide
good search, listen and spot

Equip: Glaive and studded leather (both masterwork)
Im open for any improvement to my character that doesnt change the essential "mobile fighter with ranged weapon" dynamic.

[Elder_Basilisk]

A few thoughts.

1. If you make strength your primary attack stat (I don't think you really have an optional with a glaive, but maybe there's something I don't know of), combat reflexes is a gimme feat. Get it as soon as possible and enjoy free attacks against medium size foes. It will be more significant early on but it will still come up from time to time later.

2. Take rapid blitz and bounding assault from PHB2. If you're going to spring attack, you might as well (almost) full attack while you spring attack.

3. Consider some means to get weapon specialization and melee weapon mastery. An extra +2 to hit and damage is very nice. Fighter 4 is a pretty decent way to qualify but there are other options (pious Templar, etc).

4. Don't overlook skirmisher's boots (MIC). They're boots of speed for people who use spring attack. Talk to your DM about getting a version with more charges or just buy five or six pairs and switch them after fights.

5. If you have spring attack, you pretty much have the prerequisites for elusive target. It's a really useful feat-take it.

6. I played a somewhat similar build (fighter/scout base) from level 6 to 22 or so in the age of worms Adventure path. Nightsong enforcer was a pretty good addition to the build since it advanced BAB and the skills I wanted as well as tossing a little sneak attack in.

[Menzath]

I'm not sure how open on sources your game is, but if you are playing a highly mobile support type, maybe a psionic or incarnum off class could help fill out your roll.
Either group would come with a nice set of in battle support abilities or powers.

Also I would have to double check but if I recall you can do a tumble check DC:35 to five foot 10ft instead. I'm afb so I'm not sure.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It just so happens that I have an entire handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?473666-New-Scout-Handbook) on the topic!

Basically, a Scout wants two things: a way to move and full attack, and a way of getting more-and-better attacks. For the first, you'll probably look at either Pounce or Travel Devotion. (Spring Attack is NOT an efficient way of doing so-- it takes a lot of feats to do not very much, and the followups that let you make extra attacks are hard for a single-classed Scout to reach.)

Pounce lets you make a full attack after charging. Using a glaive, you'll probably want to get it via a one-level dip in Barbarian, using the Spirit Lion Totem ACF from Complete Champion. That's also reasonably close FLUFF-WISE. While you're at it, you can take the Whirling Frenzy rage variant from Unearthed Arcana for an extra attack while raging, and the Extra Rage feat from Complete Warrior to get enough daily uses to last a full set of encounters. (One more level can get you Improved Trip via the Wolf Totem Barbarian ACF from Unearthed Arcana, completing the basic "make my melee character good" package).

Travel Devotion is a feat from the same book, which can be activated once/day as a swift action to let you move as a swift action for a minute. Which is decent on its own, but you can use it more often by spending Turn Undead uses. Given that Clerics get Turn Undead AND can get Devotion feats for free, a one-level Cleric dip is also pretty good for scouts.

After that, there's one real good option for Scouts: start taking Ranger levels and the feat Swift Hunter (Complete Scoundrel), which let's the two classes stack for favored enemies and Skirmish damage. Given that Ranger is ALSO a high-skill martial wilderness specialist, only with the addition of a full BAB, spells, and great splat book support, there's little reason not to. (The Highland Stalker PrC in Compete Adventurer is basically a lesser version of this.)

You might also think about dipping into Warlock for a level. The Eldritch Glaive invocation in Complete Mage will let you turn your blast into a magic glaive which hits touch AC, massively boosting your accuracy. If you don't, it's worth looking into getting a Feycraft glaive (DMG2), which will let you use Weapon Finesse.

[Malimar]

Assuming your group uses XP: Were I in your character's Skirmisher's Boots, I would probably spend my next level-up buying off my level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). This'll speed up acquisition of future levels.

[Grmblmpft]

firstof thx for the quick answers,

ok so from the sound of it i should dip into fighter?or have a massive amount of xp expencive dips like barb cleric and ranger.

if i go for swift hunter 1lvl in ranger should be enough? as i dont need twf or ranged feats.

thx for the lvl adjustment tip i already thougt of that.

i get mixed messages for spring attack right now, is travel devotion so much better even without a cleric dip?

[Grod_The_Giant]

ok so from the sound of it i should dip into fighter?or have a massive amount of xp expencive dips like barb cleric and ranger.
Why would they be more expensive than Fighter? Are you using multiclass experience penalties or something?


if i go for swift hunter 1lvl in ranger should be enough? as i dont need twf or ranged feats.
The point of Swift Hunter is to take mostly Ranger levels-- they're generally better than Scout levels, and significantly better than plain Scout levels when they're giving you


i get mixed messages for spring attack right now, is travel devotion so much better even without a cleric dip?
Think about Travel Devotion as, oh, the Dervish's Dance as a stand-alone feat, but with pretty much all the restrictions lifted. If you don't dip Cleric or something for Turn Undead, you can still get more uses by taking the feat multiple times. (So hey, four uses by the time you invest an equal number of feats as Dervish requires). But really, just... look at Spring Attack. What does it give you that Tumble doesn't, and is it really worth two crapsack feats?

[DEMON]

Why would they be more expensive than Fighter? Are you using multiclass experience penalties or something?

Seems to be the case.

Personally, I'd ask the DM if he's willing to treat the Scout as Rogue for the purpose of Tiefling's favored class, provided he's not willing to just drop the whole concept of multiclass penalties in the first place.

[Grmblmpft]

Think about Travel Devotion as, oh, the Dervish's Dance as a stand-alone feat, but with pretty much all the restrictions lifted
ok Im pretty much sold on travel Devotion, thinking of it this way. dodge and mobility cant even get close to free full attacks 3 times a day.
then i need some other feats to take before full attacks become useful. thinking of combat reflexes and improved initiative.

Are you using multiclass experience penalties or something?
Jea the DM doesnt want super cheesy 6 class mixup builds so he trys to "nerf" that withmulticlass penalties.

The point of Swift Hunter is to take mostly Ranger levels-- they're generally better than Scout levels, and significantly better than plain Scout levels when they're giving you
jea but then why dont i choose mage instead cause hes obviously better at everything? ... sry but i especially chose not to play ranger as main class.

so my play would be
1) lvl adjustment buyoff
2) change dodge for travel devotion (if DM lets me)
3) just wait as scout for the nightsong prc
4) whine for weeks until DM lets me buy my boots :smallbiggrin:

[Elder_Basilisk]

Think about Travel Devotion as, oh, the Dervish's Dance as a stand-alone feat, but with pretty much all the restrictions lifted. If you don't dip Cleric or something for Turn Undead, you can still get more uses by taking the feat multiple times. (So hey, four uses by the time you invest an equal number of feats as Dervish requires). But really, just... look at Spring Attack. What does it give you that Tumble doesn't, and is it really worth two crapsack feats?

Things spring attack delivers that tumble, travel devotion (and in some cases pounce etc) does not:

1. No multiclassing required for eligibility.

2. This is the big one: a way to make your attacks while staying outside of the enemy's full attack range. While pounce or travel devotion let you move to an enemy and make a full attack, they expose you to a full attack in return if the enemy survives. And the next round you are stuck with the choice of full attacking or moving away. Spring attack and the rest of the chain let you (almost) full attack and move away every round. You don't trade full attacks anymore--you get full attacks and they don't.

3. Dodge and mobility are underwhelming prereq feats by themselves but they open up some other very nice feats such as (particularly) elusive target. Think it's nice to get full attacks when the other guy doesn't? How about getting power attack damage while the other guy doesn't? For that matter, how about a free trip attack on all of the minions who tried to pin you down and then missed their opportunity attacks? Or making the bad guy's opportunity attack automatically miss and hit an ally because he had the misfortune to flank you?

4. Particularly for a glaive scout who doesn't cheese a way to use Dex to hit (and thus retains opportunity attacks that aren't utterly worthless), spring attack will let you kite foes and take opportunity attacks on them if they want to get their single attack in return. It won't always work out, but when it does, it will be devastating.

[DEMON]

jea but then why dont i choose mage instead cause hes obviously better at everything? ... sry but i especially chose not to play ranger as main class.

Fair enough. But to be fair, there's a difference between mechanically stronger, yet completely different character concept (main spellcaster) and a mechanically stronger character with the same concept (swift hunter).


so my play would be
1) lvl adjustment buyoff
2) change dodge for travel devotion (if DM lets me)
3) just wait as scout for the nightsong prc
4) whine for weeks until DM lets me buy my boots :smallbiggrin:

Nightsong Enforcer gives you full BAB, d8 HD, 4+INT skill points and good reflex save, as well as +4d6 SA over 10 levels. Plus some other class features including 2 Rogue special abilities. You can qualify for this PrC at level 8.

Rogue gives you 3/4 BAB, d6 HD, 8+INT skill points and good reflex save, as well as +1d6 SA every other level. You'd also get the Rogue special abilities, of course, as well as some other features (some overlap with Scout's class features, but that's what ACFs are for).

With the Swift Ambusher feat, you'd also keep improving your Skirmish damage & AC bonus. And since Rogue is your favored class, you needn't worry about multiclass penalties.

Just a food for thought.