How to make a likable necromancer

[NecroDancer]

So I'm doing a cleric 6/master of shrouds 2 build. I'm heavily focused on raising the dead (I took undeath domain) but I'm worried my character may come off as "evil".

I don't really care if my character is evil or not but I want him to be likeable to the rest of the party and not seem grimdark. When I create undead horrors I don't want to come off as "brooding or moody".

Some nice personality traits I thought of are

1. Have my character be really into baking and use my downtime to make the party cookies in game

2. My character was very sheltered so they don't know that undead are considered bad

3. Although my character summons shadows they are afraid of the dark

4. My character's personality is a very nice but stereotypical jock/fraternity member ("what's up bros! My undead bros totally wrecked that dragon, hell yeah bro, potions all around!")

Any other ideas for a fun personality for my necromancer?

[Cosi]

You're over-thinking this. Just don't do evil stuff. No one ever asks "how do I make my Ranger likable" or "how do I make my Incarnate likable". Doing Necromancy magic doesn't make your character any less likable than doing Divination magic or Fire magic would. Just play them in a way that is likable, and you will get a likable character.

To be clear, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your ideas. You could do any of those, and it would add some personality to your character. But it's not necessary, any more than it is necessary for a Wizard to somehow subvert people's expectations of Wizards to be likable.

[gooddragon1]

+Have him get consent or make artificial skeletons with wall of stone+fabricate+stone to flesh (creating a corpse). #ethicallysourcedskeletons
+Have him help out farmers and such with these skeletons. Also, maybe implement safeguards on the skeletons in case of emergency (a pouch of holy water contained in the ribcage of each skeleton for example).

Stuff like that.

Offers to use spells at a discounted rate for citizens and perhaps people who have helped the citizenry.

[Esprit15]

What do your other characters do to be liked? Do those things.

[Pex]

Only animate the corpses of the bad guys you defeat. To purge their sins of life they serve you in unlife to help Right the Wrongs and erase some of their Debt to Society for as long as they last. Do not scare the npc villagers. Do not dig up graveyards. Do not be mean or rude in how you talk.

[Afgncaap5]

Your suggestions are all good at making the character "fun" (although the baking idea would be hard to turn down.) Having said that, I'm going to partially agree that there doesn't need to be a *huge* investment in likability for it to still work. Generally being a nice and kind person, using good manners, and not crossing other people's boundaries are all useful, even if they're not necromancy specific.

gooddragon's point that he should, like, get permission to make skeletons is a good one. In a sense, that'd make his use of skeletons similar to modern day organ donations; we don't want to die, but if our body parts can help people after we're done with them, why not?

[Vhaidara]

I actually had a necromancer in PF who had a mission to prove that the creation of undead was no more fundamentally evil than tossing a fireball. In fact, he considered undeath to be a viable form of alternative medicine, having watched his mother die when his vampire father refused to turn her, despite her WANTING him to.

The first big thing is that he functioned on contracts. He would make deals with people, paying them a price for the corpse they would eventually be. The contract spelled out the kinds of service that the undead could be used for (upon which the price was based). Otherwise, he stuck to animals to fill out his early bodyguard forces.

The eventual goal was to found a kingdom (it was a kingmaker game) in which he could regulate things. People would be able to not only sell their future corpses (which, on the larger scale, would come with Arcane Marks and rewards for returning the bodies, given after divinations confirmed no foul play), but they could donate things like blood and life force for the various predatory undead in government employ. Freelance feeding had a 0 tolerance policy.

Basically, if you want to play a necromancer who isn't evil, give them rules and a MASSIVE chip on their shoulder against the kind of behavior that makes that stereotype so prevalent.

[Quarian Rex]

3. Although my character summons shadows they are afraid of the dark


Anything but this, or things like it. Your characters perception of the world can be as warped as you want and that is fine, even entertaining as with your other ideas. Warping the very basic nature of creatures that are not your character (especially in ways that are so obviously backwards) can completely ruin the immersion of everyone at the table. There is a vast difference between a character being a special snowflake and a player trying to force the world to be a special snowflake for him.

[Vhaidara]

Anything but this, or things like it. Your characters perception of the world can be as warped as you want and that is fine, even entertaining as with your other ideas. Warping the very basic nature of creatures that are not your character (especially in ways that are so obviously backwards) can completely ruin the immersion of everyone at the table. There is a vast difference between a character being a special snowflake and a player trying to force the world to be a special snowflake for him.

I could see a shadowcaster who is afraid of the dark. It's basically the batman method, become what you fear. Also works with a character subconsciously using their power. Their fear causes them to lash out, and the source of their fear is their weapon.

[Hiro Quester]

You could just be really into recycling.

Dead bodies are unused resources, you make good use of them long after the souls of their original owners are done using them. Others would consider them used up. You think otherwise.

[Psyren]

I could see a shadowcaster who is afraid of the dark. It's basically the batman method, become what you fear. Also works with a character subconsciously using their power. Their fear causes them to lash out, and the source of their fear is their weapon.

I think the OP was saying his Shadows were afraid of the dark, which is what Quarian was objecting to. I could be misreading a singular "their" though.

[ChaosStar]

Anything but this, or things like it. Your characters perception of the world can be as warped as you want and that is fine, even entertaining as with your other ideas. Warping the very basic nature of creatures that are not your character (especially in ways that are so obviously backwards) can completely ruin the immersion of everyone at the table. There is a vast difference between a character being a special snowflake and a player trying to force the world to be a special snowflake for him.

I think he meant that his character was afraid of the dark.

[ayvango]

Half-fey template and just Charm them all!

[Falontani]

a lot like other have said, be as lawful as possible. Its the best way I've seen necromancers played that aren't completely evil. Although remember that Good Clerics cant animate the dead because they are nearly all [evil] spells.

[Quarian Rex]

I think the OP was saying his Shadows were afraid of the dark, which is what Quarian was objecting to. I could be misreading a singular "their" though.

I think he meant that his character was afraid of the dark.

I read it as the shadows, not the character, being the phobic. Character weaponizing what he fears most? Run with it, see how it plays out, love to see it. Undead creatures (who are immune to fear even) formed of shadow being scared of the dark? Burn it with fire.

[Doctor Awkward]

Just be generally bright and chipper, and maintain a positive outlook. Like this....

Random NPC: "It sure is hard to raise a family these days."
Necromancer: "Oh not if they are all buried close enough together."
Random NPC: "...what?"
Necromancer: "What?"

[Sheogoroth]

Well, the most fun option would be lying to them.

Max dat bluff, gurl, and tell them that your character is the spiritual guru of holy order of knights. Carry around a bunch of extra sets of platemail and after a fight, say that you believe in honoring the fallen dead. Have your platemail hidden Zambies build a little hut out of wood and put the corpses in there. You go in to perform last rites(bringing your extra sets of platemail) raise the zambies, suit them up, then leave with them and light the hut on fire, telling your compatriots that you and your followers(who all coincidentally took vows of silence and purity that prevent them from ever removing armor and also coincidentally only eat in private) have honored them.
If they don't count your "knights" you should be fine.

[BlackOnyx]

Like a few others have been saying, despite their interests, a necromancer doesn't need to be inherently unlikable (even if they do end up with an alignment south of neutral).


The most important thing you can do as a necromancer is pursue your interests *appropriately* (time, place, and degree). Based on the setting of your campaign and your party makeup, this can take on a number of different appearances.


In general though, as long as you don't cause issues for your party members (i.e. blatantly going against their moral codes or endangering them by association with your exploits), utilizing necromancy in-game shouldn't be an issue. Showing your companions how useful necromancy can be (i.e. using summons to trigger traps, or speak with dead to obtain information) works wonders as well.


In short, a lot more characters can be made willing to accept necromancy when it's (A) well regulated and (B) proven useful.


For the purpose of interacting with npcs, I'd say many of the same rules apply. That said, it can be harder to trust npcs to remain silent. Unless you're sure they'll accept your practices, it may be best to only engage in them with your fellow party members present.


For situations where subtlety isn't possible, a high charisma (with investment in diplomacy, bluff) can be quite useful. Trickery Domain (for a cleric) offers bluff, disguise, and hide as class skills that you might not otherwise have access to.

[Vaern]

I was reading a particular web comic a long, long time ago in which the main character encountered a fat, jolly, upbeat necromancer who explained that through his workings with death he had found greater appreciation for life.
That's an easy enough explanation to step away from the stereotype that necromancers should be dark and brooding. You speak with the dead, many of them tell you their biggest regret is not experiencing all that life had to offer, and you decide to heed their word: Your one goal is now to live life to the fullest.

[ChaosStar]

I was reading a particular web comic a long, long time ago in which the main character encountered a fat, jolly, upbeat necromancer who explained that through his workings with death he had found greater appreciation for life.
That's an easy enough explanation to step away from the stereotype that necromancers should be dark and brooding. You speak with the dead, many of them tell you their biggest regret is not experiencing all that life had to offer, and you decide to heed their word: Your one goal is now to live life to the fullest.

Oh, you've read Dominic Deegan too? Man that was a great webcomic. Speaking of webcomic necromancers, Richard is very likeable and funny, even though he's evil.

[Sam K]

Oh, you've read Dominic Deegan too? Man that was a great webcomic. Speaking of webcomic necromancers, Richard is very likeable and funny, even though he's evil.

He's mostly funny if he happens to other people, though. Or if you're a MMORPG PC (which Cale sort of is), to whom fiery mutilation and death is a mere inconvenience.

A necromancer who found that life is precious through his study of death could be interesting indeed. Could open up some interesting philosophy conversations with your party - especially if the necro insists on not letting others take risks because their life is too valuable, and uses his undead for every dangerous task. Sort of a hen mother necromancer.

The idea of a sheltered academic who doesn't understand why other people frown on undead could be interesting, but can quickly devolve into slapstick when you animate an orphans mother to care for the terrified child. If done right, it could be creepy and interesting at the same time though: anecdotes about being tucked in by the animated body of your grandmother, your pet being an animated dog skeleton...

[Nifft]

You're a Cleric.

You can get people to like you by healing them, leading prayer services, and doing other normal Cleric stuff.

[Sam K]

Dunno if this is applicable, but in Guild Wars 2 I tried RPing a sylvari (plant-people) necromancer who had serious issues understanding why people were shocked/offended by her use of undead. After all, she wasn't offended by people eating fruit or building tools out of wood despite being made out of plants. "It's just... stuff! It doesn't care, it CAN'T care! It's not aware. It's like I would be angry about you using a wooden table. The table isn't offended and neither am I, now stop being a baby about these things."

Didn't work out because RPing in a MMORPG is hopeless, but I liked the idea of a necro who had a different view on the "material components" of raising the dead.

[Ellrin]

Dunno if this is applicable, but in Guild Wars 2 I tried RPing a sylvari (plant-people) necromancer who had serious issues understanding why people were shocked/offended by her use of undead. After all, she wasn't offended by people eating fruit or building tools out of wood despite being made out of plants. "It's just... stuff! It doesn't care, it CAN'T care! It's not aware. It's like I would be angry about you using a wooden table. The table isn't offended and neither am I, now stop being a baby about these things."

Didn't work out because RPing in a MMORPG is hopeless, but I liked the idea of a necro who had a different view on the "material components" of raising the dead.

To be fair, there's a lot of conflicting ideas about what happens to the souls of undead in D&D lore—some of which conflicts with the idea that raising them is harmless—, let alone the fact that a lot of undead ARE aware. It's an interesting idea, but you'd need to make sure the DM's world actually works the way you're describing, or at least to make sure it's reasonable that your character wouldn't know otherwise.

[Telonius]

So I'm doing a cleric 6/master of shrouds 2 build. I'm heavily focused on raising the dead (I took undeath domain) but I'm worried my character may come off as "evil".

I don't really care if my character is evil or not but I want him to be likeable to the rest of the party and not seem grimdark. When I create undead horrors I don't want to come off as "brooding or moody".

Some nice personality traits I thought of are

1. Have my character be really into baking and use my downtime to make the party cookies in game

2. My character was very sheltered so they don't know that undead are considered bad

3. Although my character summons shadows they are afraid of the dark

4. My character's personality is a very nice but stereotypical jock/fraternity member ("what's up bros! My undead bros totally wrecked that dragon, hell yeah bro, potions all around!")

Any other ideas for a fun personality for my necromancer?

For #4, I'm thinking something like, "Hey, no sense leaving the party just because you're dead." Existence on this plane is awesome, and he wants the party to keep on rolling. If his goal is (eventually) intelligent undead, that could fit in nicely.

Depending on the group, making your undead minions Tim Burton-esque could help you be more likeable. If you're making affably creepy weirdos that endear themselves to the rest of the team, they're less likely to break out the pitchforks and torches. Corpse Bride would be one to watch to get into that mindset.

[Celestia]

Give him a top hat and funny accent. Have him crack horrible puns. Make an undead barbershop quartet out of bards.

[Vaern]

To be fair, there's a lot of conflicting ideas about what happens to the souls of undead in D&D lore—some of which conflicts with the idea that raising them is harmless—, let alone the fact that a lot of undead ARE aware. It's an interesting idea, but you'd need to make sure the DM's world actually works the way you're describing, or at least to make sure it's reasonable that your character wouldn't know otherwise.
Whatever happens to the soul, the fact that a creature that has been raised as an undead can no longer be resurrected by any but the most powerful means available indicates that the soul is, in some way, defiled, desecrated, and/or violated.

In the case of intelligent undead, they do possess a soul - and if it is in fact the same soul that belonged to the animated creature, they may serve as proof that the creation of undead undoubtedly twists the soul into a perverse mockery of its former self.

A lot of the philosophy within the D&D world is based on real-world religious beliefs. Virtually every religion has some form of rituals that its followers believe must be followed if the soul of the deceased is to rest in peace, and disturbing the dead is perceived almost universally as an act of the highest disrespect.
So even if there was no evidence to indicate that creating a zombie would harm the soul, and even if the spell to do so was not regarded as being inherently [evil], it would still almost certainly be a taboo act amongst all good and most neutral religions, for fear that disturbing the body may prevent the soul from resting in its rightful place in the afterlife.

[SirNMN]

Half-fey template and just Charm them all!

Not this using magic on party against their will is the fastest way to turn them against you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The character represented in my avatar and whose name I have on my GiantitP account was a gestalt psion skillmonkey, and he was a very sweet kid. He also had the psianimate dead power, from Hyperconscious. He couldn't stand to see innocent animals die, and any time he came across one that had been killed, his subconscious manifested psianimate dead on it, bringing it -- as far as he knew -- back to life. It didn't take him long to realize that something was very, seriously wrong, as his loyal animal friends would start to rot, even while they were still alive.

The campaign died before that story thread could go any further, but he engaged in some heavy-duty necromancy, and the Good-aligned party (including a paladin/crusader) still liked him quite a lot.

[Barbarian Horde]

Have your undead formed from creatures who signed a contract for use of their body after death. You'll be like the guys in charge of collecting the organs after a fatal accident when you read their license to see they are sign up for organ donation.

Talk to the government in charge and animate dead prisoners who haven't finished serving their sentence.

Find people from your religion willing to help you after death.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Have your undead formed from creatures who signed a contract for use of their body after death. You'll be like the guys in charge of collecting the organs after a fatal accident when you read their license to see they are sign up for organ donation.

Talk to the government in charge and animate dead prisoners who haven't finished serving their sentence.

Find people from your religion willing to help you after death.Find a way to transfer ownership of your lower powered undead minions to those who are genuinely interested in nonviolent ways of assisting their communities, then use the less rotty undead for mindless but more visible things like plowing fields and guard duty (under a commanding officer, of course, and dressed in clothing that completely hides their undead natures), while the fleshy ones are used for sewer patrols and such, where the need for disease control is nonexistent. Ensure that whatever government is present is okay with the responsible use of undead in this manner. Perhaps contact local churches of Neutral gods of life and death and use the latter to encourage higher quality of the former. Use them in production lines to perform very basic and simple functions in order to produce more complex goods. Then talk to the servants of gods of knowledge to start educating those who would otherwise be put out of work by this plan. Use that to start making advances in technology and magic.

Basically, use undead to perform mindless gruntwork. This frees the population up for education, R&D, and more cerebral pursuits.

[Ellrin]

Basically, use undead to perform mindless gruntwork. This frees the population up for education, R&D, and more cerebral pursuits.

At least until the barbarian hordes come to town eager to pillage the decadent, corrupt empire, which causes either the kingdom's downfall or the reinforcement of the military with undead soldiers, eventually leading down the path towards a paranoid undead-dominated police state.

I mean, probably.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

At least until the barbarian hordes come to town eager to pillage the decadent, corrupt empire, which causes either the kingdom's downfall or the reinforcement of the military with undead soldiers, eventually leading down the path towards a paranoid undead-dominated police state.

I mean, probably.A.) You're teaching your people magic -- because, c'mon, why wouldn't you? Artificers, at the very least, for taxation purposes.

B.) You have a ready-made undead army to act as literal meat-shields.

Said hordes don't stand a ghost of a chance. Or a zombie, either.

[Marlowe]

Barbarians vs Necromancers: The game that's over before it begins!

[SirNMN]

they even provided the replacements for the ones that they destroyed

[Jiece18]

Any other ideas for a fun personality for my necromancer?

Dress them in funny outfits. A hoard of skeletons in ballerina outfits will either make people pause or laugh. Fun either way.

[Quarian Rex]

Barbarians vs Necromancers: The game that's over before it begins!

Reminds me of Jakandor (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Jakandor). I actually owned those books back in the day. A google search can provide more details. The Charonti are actually a great example of a benevolent necromantic empire.

[LuminousWarrior]

You know, technically Xykon is a likable necromancer. And so are Redcloak and Malak. Likable and evil are not exclusive.

One idea I had for a good necromancer was an atheist wizard. I had two iterations of the idea. One version believes wholeheartedly that there are no such things as gods of any kind and that even if there were, there is no way that a being as powerful as that would even acknowledge mortals, let alone grant them magic. The other believes that there are gods and they do interact with mortals, but it's only a matter of time before humanity does something that causes the gods to abandon them. Either way he's attempting to find a way to recreate healing magic, either to prove that clerics are just clever arcane casters or to prepare for when the gods no longer grant it. In his attempts to recreate healing magic he has delved into necromancy, attempting to find a way to twist the dark arts into true healing. He mostly buys dead bodies to dissect them, and only creates undead when he needs to.

[Arutema]

I'm reminded of the protagonist of Phantom Brave; a cheerful, optimistic young girl who just happens to be naturally gifted with the power to summon an army of ghosts.

So yeah, necromancy is what you're good at, even if you'd prefer it otherwise. But you will, somehow, find a way to help people with your limited selection of known spells.

[LuminousWarrior]

There's also this 3rd party Pathfinder class. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/kobold-press-open-design/white-necromancer/) It's called the White Necromancer. You could probably take some ideas from this class' fluff.

[Cj304]

I'm honestly playing something similar in my main campaign right now.

Spellscale Cleric who's kinda confused about Divine spells being separated into 'Good' and 'Evil' categories? He's all; but it's magic! I'm one of the few spellcasters that can learn DOZENS of spells at once, and I can't use HALF of them because of the whimsy of these "Gods"? (Because as a Spellscale, his worship of the Dragon Gods pantheon is more like "well, these big scary dragons seem to hand out power if you think at them really hard. Cool. I'll just respect them and try not to wonder why people make temples to them")

So my character has made it his mission to learn every form of Consecrate Spell/Purity Spell variation and find a way to use 'Evil' and 'Good' divine spells at will, including necromancy.

Because, if he finds a great hero and resurrects them in the invincible body of a Lich so they can continue protecting people, isn't that a good thing?

The point is; have your character be positive about it. Have them see it as a good thing, something that helps people, something that can make a difference and have them sell it as that.

[Max Fandango]

I played a necromancer who was Chaotic good (They may have been a goblin too but shhhhhhhhh) who was too downright insane to know that what he was doing was wrong. In his mind he's giving people a second shot at life, a chance to redeem themselves as he is desperately (though horribly failing) trying to redeem goblins.

So with yours making cookies etc. he should be liked by the other players, treat your necromancer as a cleric without a god. They bring people back to life, so do you!

P.S. Everybody loves clerics that revive them.

[Falontani]

make undead bards that are dirgesingers that when they play they bring back other undead bards that are dirgesingers that...

(joking)

[Steve Edwards]

one idea i had for a necromancer was he actually hated undead so much he became a necromancer to research more efficient ways to kill them, anything he raised was for research purposes (at least that's what he told everyone).

[ErebusVonMori]

I played a LE necromancer who's best friend ended up being the party paladin (undetectable alignment is a must)

He managed this by always being the first into danger, always the first to help others at his own expense, the key is to keep any darker agenda out of the party eye. As far as they're concerned you have to be Mr. Helpful, the man with the plan.