Does plastic not exist in the D&D universe?

[Dachimotsu]

I searched the entire PHB and DMG, as well as the Forgotten Realms wiki, and I can't find a single instance of the word "plastic" that doesn't refer to game pieces. Does it not exist in the D&D universe at all?

[Naanomi]

The greater Cosmology has high-tech worlds in it, so I’m sure it exists somewhere... but not in the medieval stasis worlds of most settings

[Unoriginal]

I searched the entire PHB and DMG, as well as the Forgotten Realms wiki, and I can't find a single instance of the word "plastic" that doesn't refer to game pieces. Does it not exist in the D&D universe at all?

Not in the standard pseudo-medieval setting, no. Or maybe as an alchemical curiosity that people can't create in large quantity.


Why would it exist, though?

[Sigreid]

Wouldn't in most campaigns unless an adventurer brought it from another world. I know it's everywhere now, but even we have only had it since 1907.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Plastic as we know it was first invented in the mid-1800's. If we're talking about chemically created polymers, especially those derived from oil, it would be pretty weird to have plastic exist in any D&D setting. Even Eberron.

That said, plastic doesn't always refer to chemical polymers. Sometimes it just means moldable semi-synthetic organic compounds. These things likely do exist, and some might be magically created. A warforged, going back to Eberron, is made of plastic according to its truest definition (molded living trees into the shape of a sentient or semi-sentient creature). But most people would call these semantics, as this is almost certainly not what people are thinking of when they use the word plastic.

[Scots Dragon]

I searched the entire PHB and DMG, as well as the Forgotten Realms wiki, and I can't find a single instance of the word "plastic" that doesn't refer to game pieces. Does it not exist in the D&D universe at all?

Plastics as we know them weren't really developed or explored until sometime in the 19th century, and widespread commercial use wasn't common until part-way through the twentieth, as they're not actually naturally occurring materials but artificially developed. As such while plastic almost certainly can exist, chances are that you're unlikely to find it being a particularly common material in a late-medieval fantasy world.

[Sigreid]

Plastic as we know it was first invented in the mid-1800's. If we're talking about chemically created polymers, especially those derived from oil, it would be pretty weird to have plastic exist in any D&D setting. Even Eberron.

That said, plastic doesn't always refer to chemical polymers. Sometimes it just means moldable semi-synthetic organic compounds. These things likely do exist, and some might be magically created. A warforged, going back to Eberron, is made of plastic according to its truest definition (molded living trees into the shape of a sentient or semi-sentient creature). But most people would call these semantics, as this is almost certainly not what people are thinking of when they use the word plastic.

I'll take your word on invention date over the wiki. 😁

[Ganymede]

Moving on, I think it is important to point out that the lack of a published mention of something has little bearing as to whether it exists in the game world.

I seriously doubt "pirogi" is printed in any D&D publication, but I am pretty sure Barovian peasantry feature them in their cuisine.

[hamishspence]

I'll take your word on invention date over the wiki. 😁

Actually "the wiki" (Wikipedia in this case) says the same:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic

Parkesine (nitrocellulose) is considered the first man-made plastic. The plastic material was patented by Alexander Parkes, in Birmingham, England in 1856.

[Sigreid]

Actually "the wiki" (Wikipedia in this case) says the same:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic

Parkesine (nitrocellulose) is considered the first man-made plastic. The plastic material was patented by Alexander Parkes, in Birmingham, England in 1856.

Then I need to read closer and not skim.

Back to topic, in 1e there was a module through the looking glass I think, that was basically Alice in Wonderland. In that module you could come across Zagyag The Mad's house, which had all the modern conveniences powered by an imprisoned lightning elemental.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I'll take your word on invention date over the wiki. 😁

Did some double checking. Actually, I forgot that vulcanized rubber counts. That was invented in 1839 by Charles Goodyear. Still 'mid 1800's', but several years earlier than the Swiss creation of nitrocellulose in 1846 that I was thinking of.

1907 was when bakelite was invented, the first commercially viable plastic that was made from a purely synthetic polymer. So as far as most of the world is concerned, 1907 was when plastic was first really 'in use', though I'm curious if Goodyear's rubber had seen much utilization before then. I think people just forget that vulcanized rubber is technically a plastic.

[hamishspence]

Shellac may qualify as a more natural, and less synthetic, plastic - since it goes through a bit of modification from its raw form of flakes - ethanol is added:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellac

[Waterdeep Merch]

Shellac may qualify as a more natural, and less synthetic, plastic - since it goes through a bit of modification from its raw form of flakes - ethanol is added:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellac

That's super interesting. I'm fairly unfamiliar with shellac aside from its name and art functions, it never came up in any of the classes I've taken or engineers I've spoken to. Any idea when its use as a polymer began?

[Naanomi]

I heard you can find some in the Barrier Peaks

[hamishspence]

Any idea when its use as a polymer began?

"More than 3000 years ago" although going by the description, that was more as a paint/varnish coating, than having entire objects made of it.

That said, apparently there was a palace made of it. Not sure how much that was "objects" and how much that was "coatings".

[Waterdeep Merch]

I heard you can find some in the Barrier Peaks

Ha, got me there!

I think I'm also neglecting the possibility of advanced polymers in Spelljammer. I don't recall any specific references, but it's also been decades since I last touched anything Spelljammer-related.

To the OP- if you're just looking for stats so you can use plastic in a game, you'll have to make them up. Petroleum-based plastics can be made hard or soft, depending on their function. The harder ones are more brittle (high AC, low HP) while the softer ones are more flexible and tough (low AC, high HP). I'd say the hardest should be AC 16 but count as fragile, while the softest shouldn't be any lower than AC 12 but count as resilient. Either should be naturally resistant to lightning damage. Soft plastic should be resistant to bludgeoning and thunder as well, while hard plastic should be resistant to slashing and piercing.

[StorytellerHero]

The island of Lantan in the Forgotten Realms setting may host a number of workshops that have produced plastics in relatively small but workable amounts.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Lantan

The plane of Mechanus and the divine realm of Gond will likely have plastics available for use in some form.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mechanus

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Gond

[Dachimotsu]

To the OP- if you're just looking for stats so you can use plastic in a game, you'll have to make them up.

Actually, I was trying to find a way for characters to purify salt water without magic, by boiling it under a sheet of plastic and collecting the condensation.

[Flashy]

Actually, I was trying to find a way for characters to purify salt water without magic, by boiling it under a sheet of plastic and collecting the condensation.

You definitely don’t need modern plastics for this. Rubber, oiled paper, glass condensers, etc would all work.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Ahh, that makes sense. You could actually do a similar trick with a pot that has a lid and a cup.

Place the sea water into the pot. Place the empty cup in the middle of the pot, making sure the lip of the cup is above the sea water. Now, place the pot lid on upside down. Slow boil this over a fire.

As the steam condenses at the top of the pot, it will trickle down to the inverted peak of the lid and fall into the cup. This trick takes time, fire, doesn't create much water all at once, and you're going to have to deal with scalding water to fish out your cup, but it'll keep your character from dehydration.

[BLC1975]

“I reach into my Tupperware Box Of Holding…”

[Asmotherion]

The closest thing you might find to plastic would be natural rubber a polymer found in the "caoutchouc" tree. This would be appropriate as a product found in a campain far away from the classic eastern medieval world (perhaps an exploration of the silk road?) or among a druid cyrcle of a far away land.

Obviously it's up to the DM what he allows in his campain, I'm just suggesting some options.

[Willie the Duck]

Actually, I was trying to find a way for characters to purify salt water without magic, by boiling it under a sheet of plastic and collecting the condensation.


You definitely don’t need modern plastics for this. Rubber, oiled paper, glass condensers, etc would all work.

Exactly. What else is that wizards expensive 'laboratory' for? a bog-standard set of modern Organic Chemistry 101-style glassware would be rare and exotic equipment in D&D-land. Let it actually get some use instead of being window dressing. :-)

[darkrose50]

You can make "plastic" from milk and vinegar.

https://sciencebob.com/make-plastic-milk/

You can purify water with a magnifying glass. Basically boiling the water without traditional fuel. Evidently the magnifying glasses in old projection TVs (one big one per TV) can create extremely dangerously hot beams (like super CRAZY melt stuff hot). I want to try it someday when I find an old projection TV in the trash.

You can purify water with layers of rocks, sand, and coal.

You can purify water with electricity (ozone) . . . lightning bolt very well be the equivalent of the purify water spell.

[Laserlight]

Actually, I was trying to find a way for characters to purify salt water without magic, by boiling it under a sheet of plastic and collecting the condensation.

Build a still. No plastic needed.

Although if you have a cleric, druid or paladin, they can cast Purify Food and Drink, L1. A cleric can cast it as a ritual, so you don't even burn a spell slot.

[JackPhoenix]

Actually, I was trying to find a way for characters to purify salt water without magic, by boiling it under a sheet of plastic and collecting the condensation.

Behold, the alembic!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Distillation_by_Retort.png

Also, how booze is made.

[Unoriginal]

Actually, I was trying to find a way for characters to purify salt water without magic, by boiling it under a sheet of plastic and collecting the condensation.

What.

You don't need plastic for this. Glass or metal works just fine. You can even improvise with common cooking ustensils. Just need a pot to boil the water in and a way for the condensed steam to get out.


If you want rules for this, the Xanathar's says that anyone who's proficient in Brewer's Supplies can automatically purify 6 gallons of water as part of a long rest, or 1 as part of a short rest.

But just removing the salt from the water is honestly not hard to do.

[Asmotherion]

Behold, the alembic!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Distillation_by_Retort.png

Also, how booze is made.

Ah, I knew I was forgeting something! Tolfdir, I'm so sorry!!!!

[Dachimotsu]

If you want rules for this, the Xanathar's says that anyone who's proficient in Brewer's Supplies can automatically purify 6 gallons of water as part of a long rest, or 1 as part of a short rest.

Oooh, thanks a bunch for this one. I really need to get around to reading that whole book cover-to-cover.

[Unoriginal]

Oooh, thanks a bunch for this one. I really need to get around to reading that whole book cover-to-cover.

You're welcome!

Also, don't worry, I haven't read it cover to cover either yet.

[Regitnui]

Plastic as we know it was first invented in the mid-1800's. If we're talking about chemically created polymers, especially those derived from oil, it would be pretty weird to have plastic exist in any D&D setting. Even Eberron.

Yeah, Eberron doesn't tackle problems the same way that this world does. Same reasoning applies to plastic as guns; why would they even think of it? Plastic (as in "pliable") materials, sure, but not throwing oils and rubber into a vat in an alchemist's workshop somewhere.

Don't forget, Eberron isn't an advanced technology setting like d20 Modern or Barrier Peaks. It's an advanced magic setting; laundromats exist because prestidigitation is a cleaning cantrip, not because a gnome discovered detergents. Everburning lamps are because someone discovered how to make a mage light spell last almost forever, not because someone started burning metal in a glass orb.

[Scots Dragon]

“I reach into my Tupperware Box Of Holding…”

That's something for an Urban Arcana game if ever I saw it.

[GreyBlack]

Better question: does oil?

In order to make plastic you have to have oil which wasn't really used until at least the late 1800s. Whale oil harvested most likely doesn't yield enough to ensure proper production. So without a consistent method of oil harvesting, plastic on a large scale isn't really feasible.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Better question: does oil?

I would assume it does. Isn't oil the main source of tar, which is vital for roofing, caulking wooden ships and making torches? Also I think it's explicitly mentioned that the cauldron siege weapon can use boiling oil. I doubt they mean expensive whale/lamp oil in that case.

I mean, there must be oil in the ground anyway, because there are trees in a geologically active world, right?

[War_lord]

Don't forget, Eberron isn't an advanced technology setting like d20 Modern or Barrier Peaks. It's an advanced magic setting; laundromats exist because prestidigitation is a cleaning cantrip, not because a gnome discovered detergents. Everburning lamps are because someone discovered how to make a mage light spell last almost forever, not because someone started burning metal in a glass orb.

...That's now how "advanced" works. It's not an "advanced setting" when the entire planet hasn't bothered with basic chemistry "because magic".

[ShikomeKidoMi]

...That's now how "advanced" works. It's not an "advanced setting" when the entire planet hasn't bothered with basic chemistry "because magic".

It arguably is. You can easily define advancement by what level of technology is available to the common man, not whether that technology runs on lightning or having some guy chant at it for a while.

[Unoriginal]

I would assume it does. Isn't oil the main source of tar, which is vital for roofing, caulking wooden ships and making torches? Also I think it's explicitly mentioned that the cauldron siege weapon can use boiling oil. I doubt they mean expensive whale/lamp oil in that case

Well, I'm pretty sure they used other stuff than tar for centuries, in regions without much oil.

As for the siege cauldrons, well, there is a reason why in real life they used often used water, dejections, sand or broken glass, at boiling heat, rather than any kind of oil.



I mean, there must be oil in the ground anyway, because there are trees in a geologically active world, right?

*Shrug* Seems likely, but you never know with D&D worlds.

[War_lord]

It arguably is. You can easily define advancement by what level of technology is available to the common man, not whether that technology runs on lightning or having some guy chant at it for a while.

You mean the Lightning Rail that has apparently been going at 30 miles per hour for over 100 years?

[nakajima]

-- Isn't oil the main source of tar, which is vital for roofing, caulking wooden ships and making torches? --


Not really, though I can really only speak for Europe. I do recall people in the Middle East and even China using petroleum to make pitch.

In Europe, tar was produced by burning peat or wood, especially pine. For example, in the 14th and 15th centuries the main export of the region of Sweden now known as Finland was tar, even though there aren't any natural oil deposits in Finland.

Also, I'd be a lot more hesitant to go out and buy tar candy if it was flavored with asphalt instead of wood tar.

[Regitnui]

...That's now how "advanced" works. It's not an "advanced setting" when the entire planet hasn't bothered with basic chemistry "because magic".

Shh... Not the time or place.

The Warhammer 40K faction known as the orcs have no, or very little, functioning technology. Yet, they can fight on par with three sci-fi civilisations, one race of undead hive-minded robots, and the forces of totally-not hell. Why? Because they slap machine parts together in a rough approximation of what they want and their combined psychic powers does the rest. They can't be bothered with basic physics nor chemistry. Tell me they're not advanced? They must be doing something right.

[Unoriginal]

Shh... Not the time or place.

The Warhammer 40K faction known as the orcs have no, or very little, functioning technology. Yet, they can fight on par with three sci-fi civilisations, one race of undead hive-minded robots, and the forces of totally-not hell. Why? Because they slap machine parts together in a rough approximation of what they want and their combined psychic powers does the rest. They can't be bothered with basic physics nor chemistry. Tell me they're not advanced? They must be doing something right.

Actually, most of the Orks' tech is functional even without their psychic powers, and can actually be pretty advanced.

There are some instances of not-functional tech working thanks to their mind powers, or and it probably works a lot better as a whole than it should, but most of the time the Orks can't make a toy gun shoot real bullets

[BLC1975]

That's something for an Urban Arcana game if ever I saw it.

Impossibly high DC to get the lid back on securely.

[JackPhoenix]

Actually, most of the Orks' tech is functional even without their psychic powers, and can actually be pretty advanced.

There are some instances of not-functional tech working thanks to their mind powers, or and it probably works a lot better as a whole than it should, but most of the time the Orks can't make a toy gun shoot real bullets

Not anymore, at least. They could do it in earlier lore, but it was since retconned. Their tech is all over the place... some of it is barely functioning, but their force fields and teleportation tech is arguably the best in the galaxy... and it works even for non-orks. One of the Mars' moons was teleported away while experimenting with captured Ork tech, as was one entire planet.

[Regitnui]

Actually, most of the Orks' tech is functional even without their psychic powers, and can actually be pretty advanced.

There are some instances of not-functional tech working thanks to their mind powers, or and it probably works a lot better as a whole than it should, but most of the time the Orks can't make a toy gun shoot real bullets

Fair enough. But they're using stuff that you can find in an American gun shop to take on super-advanced civilisations who think Elon Musk is a child tinkering with toys. In context, they're primitive.

Although doesn't the source material go back and forth on how much the Ork's psychic powers do to make their tech work?

[Willie the Duck]

Better question: does oil?

In order to make plastic you have to have oil which wasn't really used until at least the late 1800s. Whale oil harvested most likely doesn't yield enough to ensure proper production. So without a consistent method of oil harvesting, plastic on a large scale isn't really feasible.

Well, the basic answer of course is 'depends on the DM.' D&D has very rarely spelled out the exact "why" to the question of why most D&D worlds seem to have existed for hundreds to thousands of years in technological stasis. Eberron does a little of the "no new science happens because there is magic instead" and Forgotten Realms has a bit of "Gods like Gond propagate the notion that things like guns are awesome but impractical," and plenty of them have a sliver of "we're a hundred or so years after a massive cataclysm. Society is just clawing it's way back to where it is now. Who knows whether steam trains will show up in 300 years in this world, depends on if the DM wants to try steampunk next."

My general answer (to my players) is usually "you don't know"-- you don't know if there's oil. Or bauxite for making aluminum, or coal deposits for the steam-era, or any other thing the medieval world doesn't know about, and your characters don't know enough to ask those questions. If it ever comes up, we'll figure something out.

[Regitnui]

Eberron does a little of the "no new science happens because there is magic instead"

Minor correction. It's "Magic is the science". Why come up with gunpowder when magic gives you three or four safer ways to do everything gunpowder does? An alchemist in Eberron refines alchemist's fire/frost rather than trying to distill mercury (which is toxic), as an example.

Eberron is in a technological boom, for their brand of technology. The reason things stay the same is because the setting doesn't progress forward in time. Whether 3.5 , 4e or eventual 5e, your campaign starts by default in 998YK, two years after the Last War and in the midst of a cold war.

[Naanomi]

There is also, especially in 2e and earlier, the implicit idea that ‘although it looks similar, the underlying physics of the world are just a bit different in ways prevent predictable chemistry and the like from advancing’, especially for gunpowder but for other things as well

[Willie the Duck]

And there's no guarantee that just because there appears to be things we would associate with real world geological effects, that the world works that way either. Vegetation and plankton might not be coated in geological time (which might not exist, the planet might well be 5-10,000 years old), and geochemically turned into oil.

Heck, there seems to be entire continents of Underdark under most fantasy Earths, who knows that there actually are the things under it like lower earth's crust, mantle, and core? Maybe it's turtles all the way down or whatever.

[JackPhoenix]

My general answer (to my players) is usually "you don't know"-- you don't know if there's oil. Or bauxite for making aluminum, or coal deposits for the steam-era, or any other thing the medieval world doesn't know about, and your characters don't know enough to ask those questions. If it ever comes up, we'll figure something out.

Another important thing to remember is that the most D&D worlds are the "god(s)/primordials/whatever did it" variety. They were created, they didn't have the millions years required for petroleum to form naturally.

Edit: damm shadow monks.

[War_lord]

Shh... Not the time or place.

The Warhammer 40K faction known as the orcs have no, or very little, functioning technology. Yet, they can fight on par with three sci-fi civilisations, one race of undead hive-minded robots, and the forces of totally-not hell. Why? Because they slap machine parts together in a rough approximation of what they want and their combined psychic powers does the rest. They can't be bothered with basic physics nor chemistry. Tell me they're not advanced? They must be doing something right.

They're not advanced, their technology works largely (not entirely, some Orks are born with some innate understanding of tech, but that's because Orks are bioweapons) because they don't question how it works. That's not knowledge, that's weaponized anti-knowledge.

[Sigreid]

In my current campaign I explain it as a combination of mos inventing types going into some kind of magic and the kingdoms, magical brotherhoods and religions actively and violently suppressing inventions that would threaten their power by elevating the common man to high.

[Slayn82]

People in D&D can use a lot of natural occurring polymers, extracted from sources we usually call monsters. For instance, Silk worms are nice, but imagine the versatility of the silk from giant spiders. If you have giant insects around, their exoskeletons ought to be a major source of material for crafting.

Personally, I have the theory the Elves have in their forests a very modified, Jurassic park level ecosystem that is the basis of their lifestyle. Giant spiders, centipedes and bees that make great sources of silk, carapaces and honey, vineyards that produce large amounts of grapes, etc. At the same time, everything is weaponizable, at the call of their druids.

[Knaight]

Behold, the alembic!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Distillation_by_Retort.png

Also, how booze is made.

Specifically how distilled booze is made. You don't need it for ale, beer, wine, mead, or really much of anything with an alcohol content below 20%ish. Although these days it's less retorts and more fractional distillation columns.

[PhoenixPhyre]

There is also, especially in 2e and earlier, the implicit idea that ‘although it looks similar, the underlying physics of the world are just a bit different in ways prevent predictable chemistry and the like from advancing’, especially for gunpowder but for other things as well

That implicit idea (that while the surface is the same, the underlying rules are very different) basically has to be the case. The various conservation laws, let alone normal biology and chemistry, fall into screaming conniption fits at the thought of even the non-explicitly-magical parts of most D&D worlds, while the magic is right out.

Besides, it prevents so many problems to cut out anything beyond the surface-level properties of materials. No sane DM would let their munchkins True Polymorph a bit of rock into a critical mass of plutonium, after all, or a chunk of the sun.

[Bohandas]

I think a lot of the setting worlds aren't old enough for petroleum to have formed

[Knaight]

I think a lot of the setting worlds aren't old enough for petroleum to have formed

They're also not old enough for just about any of the lifeforms on them to have developed, for lots of geological features to show up (anything involving weathering), etc. They're made in such a way that they appear far older than they really are, and there's no particular reason for that to exclude petroleum.

[Luccan]

They're also not old enough for just about any of the lifeforms on them to have developed, for lots of geological features to show up (anything involving weathering), etc. They're made in such a way that they appear far older than they really are, and there's no particular reason for that to exclude petroleum.

But is that a reason to include it? The questions we have to ask: why was it made to look older than it is? And do those reasons support the existence of petroleum being specifically created in large enough quantities to be useful?

Unless there's a setting where petroleum definitely exists (whether specifically mentioned in some form or being the basis for a material or something else in the setting). Then we just have to question if there's enough of it.

[Knaight]

But is that a reason to include it? The questions we have to ask: why was it made to look older than it is? And do those reasons support the existence of petroleum being specifically created in large enough quantities to be useful?

It's a reason to dismiss a reason to disclude it. Were I to argue for inclusion, it would be on the basis of having reserves of flammable liquids deep underground in a world where the underdark exists potentially being really fun. You've got accidental breaches that flood out areas, you've got petroleum as a weapon of war against those below it, you've got literal lakes of oil as a new environment to play around with, so on and so forth.

[Regitnui]

It's a reason to dismiss a reason to disclude it. Were I to argue for inclusion, it would be on the basis of having reserves of flammable liquids deep underground in a world where the underdark exists potentially being really fun. You've got accidental breaches that flood out areas, you've got petroleum as a weapon of war against those below it, you've got literal lakes of oil as a new environment to play around with, so on and so forth.

Exclude, not disclude.

But you make a good case for natural oil or gas being a terrain hazard. I'd argue against it being common in the Underdark though, considering in some worlds the Underdark isn't really underground, but an underground dimension you may access by going through caves. It's impossible to dig into or out of the Underdark, but you can access it through natural caves.

[JackPhoenix]

Specifically how distilled booze is made. You don't need it for ale, beer, wine, mead, or really much of anything with an alcohol content below 20%ish. Although these days it's less retorts and more fractional distillation columns.

I had the impression that "booze" specifically refers to hard liquor in english? But then again, you have two differents words for beer (in my language, there's no difference between beer and ale, and I tend to use the first term)

[Bohandas]

There is also, especially in 2e and earlier, the implicit idea that ‘although it looks similar, the underlying physics of the world are just a bit different in ways prevent predictable chemistry and the like from advancing’, especially for gunpowder but for other things as well

That said fantasy world chemistry apparently reduces to real world chemistry at a fundamental enough level for creatures to generally have all the familiar organs

[Squiddish]

People in D&D can use a lot of natural occurring polymers, extracted from sources we usually call monsters. For instance, Silk worms are nice, but imagine the versatility of the silk from giant spiders. If you have giant insects around, their exoskeletons ought to be a major source of material for crafting.

Personally, I have the theory the Elves have in their forests a very modified, Jurassic park level ecosystem that is the basis of their lifestyle. Giant spiders, centipedes and bees that make great sources of silk, carapaces and honey, vineyards that produce large amounts of grapes, etc. At the same time, everything is weaponizable, at the call of their druids.

This is an amazing theory. I've had a similar idea that the drow have been farming spider silk and slowly domesticating giant spiders for riding and hunting.


It's a reason to dismiss a reason to disclude it. Were I to argue for inclusion, it would be on the basis of having reserves of flammable liquids deep underground in a world where the underdark exists potentially being really fun. You've got accidental breaches that flood out areas, you've got petroleum as a weapon of war against those below it, you've got literal lakes of oil as a new environment to play around with, so on and so forth.

This also sounds really cool.