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Lalliman
2018-01-18, 02:36 PM
While the bare-fisted monk is one of my favourite character archetypes, I really don't like the monk class. Ki-management is clunky, the damage curve is weird, it's overly reliant on Stunning Strike, there are few customisation options, it has no potential for multiclassing, and the incremental speed bonus doesn't work well in Theatre of the Mind.

I've attempted to fix all these things with my Ki-less, Stunning-Strike-less monk. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Uri9qtmgnTtu5_TA2eqF9SasCjb7B7zfszVrQANalnc/edit?usp=sharing)

(It only goes up to 12th level for now, for convenience. Way of the Four Elements is still WIP.)

Please Evaluate And Criticise Honestly. Specifically:
- Do you think it holds up compared to a fighter?
- Is there sufficient tactical depth?
- Does Path of Enlightenment allow any overpowered multiclass combinations?

JNAProductions
2018-01-18, 03:02 PM
Right, I'd agree it's at least as good as a Fighter, notably because it gets Extra Attack (2) at the same time Fighter does.

And then I reach the Open Hand...

You get the Open Hand techniques on literally EVERY SINGLE ATTACK. Normally, they're a limited resource (needing a Flurry to proc), so... Yeah, that's insane.

Then, at level 6, you get to impose disadvantage on every single attack against you for pretty minimal cost. Admittedly, Monks need their BA more than most, excepting maybe Rogues, but that's still FAR too good.

Tranquility is fine, though.

Subtle Strike I don't like. It doesn't seem OVERPOWERED, it's just boring as hell. (Although considering the amount of attacks this class gets, it might be OP.)

Lalliman
2018-01-18, 03:39 PM
You get the Open Hand techniques on literally EVERY SINGLE ATTACK. Normally, they're a limited resource (needing a Flurry to proc), so... Yeah, that's insane.
Only the ones you get from the Attack action. No bonus action attacks or opportunity attacks. But yes, they get a lot of it. It serves to offset the lack of Stunning Strike, and the fact that this subclass has less DPR than even a non-flurrying vanilla monk.

Maybe you're right anyways and it is too powerful, but I'd like a second opinion before I make changes.


Then, at level 6, you get to impose disadvantage on every single attack against you for pretty minimal cost. Admittedly, Monks need their BA more than most, excepting maybe Rogues, but that's still FAR too good.
You're probably right about that one. I just threw that in there to see how it would be received.

Theoretically, since disadvantage roughly halves your chance of getting hit, it doubles your defence in return for lowering your DPR by ~30% (no bonus attacks), thus increasing your total effectiveness by about 40% (2 * 0.7 = 1.4). Given that a defensive boost is inherently worse than an offensive one, and that it's still a risk to stand in melee with your wizard-like HP, I figured it was worthy of consideration.


Subtle Strike I don't like. It doesn't seem OVERPOWERED, it's just boring as hell. (Although considering the amount of attacks this class gets, it might be OP.)
Eh, it's an experiment. Way of Shadow lost their spells (which I didn't particularly like on a martial class anyways) and I needed a replacement. The class as a whole lost some damage due to the new function of Martial Arts, so I decided to tie a fairly large power boost to the 3rd level subclass feature. I figured making the shadow monk act more like a rogue made sense, and I like the idea that while the rogue goes for a single decisive stab, the shadow monk pummels their opponent's weakness with repeated blows.

I think it seems fun to use, it's basically just Sneak Attack. The bonus may seem small, but it's about a 50% damage boost at any level, so you have a strong incentive to seek it out. To be fair though, I probably just like boring mechanics.