I lost my dagger…

[Evolved Shrimp]

I distinctly remember seeing a magic dagger mentioned somewhere that I cannot find anymore.

The dagger was +something (not much) but had the special property of creating three additional “phantom” blades at the moment of impact, each of which dealt as much damage as the real blade of the dagger.

I’m pretty sure that it was in an official WotC D&D 3 or 3.5 book, or maybe in Dragon, but almost certainly not in third-party material.

Can anybody recall where this dagger is described?

[Barna13]

That sounds like the manyfang dagger from serpent kingdoms.

[Jormengand]

There's also triple-throw, a +6-equivalent weapon quality which isn't unique to daggers, which creates two copies of the weapon when thrown. Not what you're looking for, but might be worth a look depending on what you're building for.

[Sheogoroth]

I distinctly remember seeing a magic dagger mentioned somewhere that I cannot find anymore.

The dagger was +something (not much) but had the special property of creating three additional “phantom” blades at the moment of impact, each of which dealt as much damage as the real blade of the dagger.

I’m pretty sure that it was in an official WotC D&D 3 or 3.5 book, or maybe in Dragon, but almost certainly not in third-party material.

Can anybody recall where this dagger is described?

Well what can we assume about this.

We know it's a dagger in one of 78 sourcebooks(assuming it's not in Faerun, Eberron, or Dragonlance) that, from what you've described, appears to do quadruple damage? Is it an artifact?

Phandom blades makes me think Ghostwalk but artifact makes me think Arms and Equipment Guide. Weapons of Legacy Maybe?

As for the exact dagger, if you have them in PDF, you can do PDF search indexing (Ctrl+Shift+F) that searches multiple PDFs.

[tyckspoon]

That sounds like the manyfang dagger from serpent kingdoms.

Almost certainly this one; it's a pretty unique/eye-catching property. The Spectral Dagger is another interesting item - it's basically continuous Chill Touch. See if you can convince your DM to let you glue them together for 4 Chill Touches/attack :smalltongue:

[Evolved Shrimp]

That sounds like the manyfang dagger from serpent kingdoms.

Yes, that’s it! Thanks!


Is it an artifact?

It’s a 32,000 gp item – not an impulse purchase, but neither epic or artifact-level.

The interesting thing is that it deals “quadruple damage on each successful hit”, which does seem to include all damage bonuses from strength and such. So, for example, with an 18 strength you get (1d4 + 1 + 4) * 4 for 24 to 36 points of damage per hit – not too shabby for a dagger.

And it is relatively easy to add damage bonuses, for example, with Power Attack or Weapon Specialization, both of which bonuses would also seem to get multiplied.

[Yogibear41]

You can't power attack with a dagger though, its a light weapon.

[Inevitability]

You can't power attack with a dagger though, its a light weapon.

Somehow manifest Graft Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/graftWeapon.htm)?

[Evolved Shrimp]

You can't power attack with a dagger though, its a light weapon.

Right, that was a bad example.

Here’s a better one: Ferocity of Sanguine Rage (from Dragon Magic) is a third-level sorcerer/wizard spell that gives you half caster level as a morale bonus to damage. That bonus, too, should be quadrupled by the dagger.

[Fizban]

The interesting thing is that it deals “quadruple damage on each successful hit”, which does seem to include all damage bonuses from strength and such. So, for example, with an 18 strength you get (1d4 + 1 + 4) * 4 for 24 to 36 points of damage per hit – not too shabby for a dagger.
Which is why the claim that it should be an artifact is pretty valid. I would really like to know which of the authors thought that was a good idea, or indeed if it was actually playtested in any way (I expect if it was actually tested at all it was with a rogue, rather than anyone that could actually multiply their damage).

Incidentally the price follows one of the most hilarious pricing failures in the game: pricing specific weapons based on the bonus formulas, when specific weapons are upgraded without regard for the price of anything that's not phrased as a bonus. At 32,000 and change, the Manyfang Dagger was most likely assigned its price as "equivalent" to a +4 weapon, and it can further be guessed that this was done because its getting +3d4 non-energy damage, equivalent to +3 worth of normal buffs. Except its not actually +3d4, its a multiplier, and it's not actually a +3 bonus, its a "RAW" 30k flat ability that doesn't factor into the exponential pricing.

As always, game content is allowed at the DM's discretion and custom magic items require an additional layer of approval.

And it is relatively easy to add damage bonuses, for example, with Power Attack or Weapon Specialization, both of which bonuses would also seem to get multiplied.
Power Attack doesn't work with light weapons so that's quite right out (as already mentioned).

Now if you want some nice combo damage, find the rules passage that indicates flat bonuses always multiply and then get some Fires of Purity for +caster level on every hit.

[Evolved Shrimp]

Which is why the claim that it should be an artifact is pretty valid. I would really like to know which of the authors thought that was a good idea, or indeed if it was actually playtested in any way.

Yes, at 32K gp, the dagger is seriously underpriced.

It may even have been actually tested and found to be OK, but with a different mechanic than published: The dagger probably is meant to do just 4 * (1d4 + 1) + bonuses damage and when tested as such is fine. But the description amounts to 4 * (1d4 + 1 + bonuses), hence the imbalance.

And your point about DM discretion is, of course, very apt. I’d probably not allow the dagger to quadruple bonuses in my campaign. But as I’m using it for a theoretical build, nobody is spoiling my fun :smallbiggrin:.

[lightningcat]

Does it only do the multiple copies when thrown? If so, then it would also need Returning to be truely bad. Otherwise, you throw it, and spend a move action (iirc) to recover it, if you are near it. So even multipying all the mods is not insane. This goes out the window when you do add Returning, and why would you not?

[Fizban]

And your point about DM discretion is, of course, very apt. I’d probably not allow the dagger to quadruple bonuses in my campaign. But as I’m using it for a theoretical build, nobody is spoiling my fun :smallbiggrin:.
That sounds like it could be a thread: What stuff do you like playing around with but wouldn't actually allow in your game? Pretty much everyone probably has at least one or two things they'd use if allowed but wouldn't want to actually DM for. I know I've turned around on a lot of my favorite homebrew, knowing that it skews too strong for what I expect to find if I get a group together IRL so I can't just allow it freely.


Does it only do the multiple copies when thrown? If so, then it would also need Returning to be truely bad. Otherwise, you throw it, and spend a move action (iirc) to recover it, if you are near it. So even multipying all the mods is not insane. This goes out the window when you do add Returning, and why would you not?
The Manyfang Dagger does multiple copies on swing, the Splitting property does multiple copies when thrown. And if you're throwing you want the Telekinetic Boomerang power (or Bloodstorm Blade, but I hate Bloodstorm Blade).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You can't power attack with a dagger though, its a light weapon.Happily, sizing is a thing. Boost the size, and suddenly you take a -2 penalty to hit to be able to do Power Attack x 4 on everything. Of course, some people think sizing + morphing will allow you to turn the manyfang dagger into any type of weapon at any size.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

You can't power attack with a dagger though, its a light weapon.

I think I saw a feat chain that let you use PA with a trow weapon and you can trow a dagger.