Sorcerer - Warlock - Paladin - Do you want extra cheese?

[Yuukale]

Ok folks, I've read some things around and it appears that these 3 classes are synergetic af when it comes to dishing out damage.

Between these 3 and their possible combinations, has anyone tried to find out what is the max damage one can get from the interaction between some or all of these 3?

What weapon should it go for? Glaive? A 2h sword?

tl;dr: how much dmg can I cheese out between a given combination of these classes?

[Snowbluff]

Warlock is only 3 levels long, paladin is only 6 at most. If you want a Glass Cannon, probably 5 warlock. Paladin 11 gets around the cap for smiting a bit. You can only use up to 4th level slots effectively effectively for smiting, so that caps at MC caster level 9.

That levels 6-11 levels available for sorcerer. The caster levels give more slots for blasting spells.

So how do you DPS?

You have 2 Attacks, then quicken a spell. Smiting, level 2 then 11 for paladin, favors paladin. The quicken spell depends on how many spell points you can dump into it, so more sorc is better. Warlock is gravy for coffelock, CHa SADness, and maybe filler eldritch blasts.

EDIT: I like the idea of doing Quicken Green Flame with Extra Attack for 3 smites, using Great Weapon Fighting feat (and maybe Hexblade Curse) for bonus damage, canceled out by the paladin channel Divinity Sacred Weapon (Devotion) or Oath of Enmity (Vengeance, I don't like this idea as much as it's single target, and you can get advantage otherway) as the ultimate smiting build.

I'll get to work on some sample damage rounds for different builds, for example Paladin6/Warlock3/Sorc11 with 2 Smites and a single 7th level blasting spell.

[Yuukale]

:O Snowbluff! It's nice to see a familiar face from the 3.5 days.

I haven't had the time to delve much into 5e, I'm just sticking to making my archers (btw, hexblade archers are gorgeous). I'd tryint to learn more about the possibilities for these 3 fellas when it comes to high melee smacking power.

I wonder if putting these 3 together yield a higher overall dmg than just having two of them (say, sorlock or sorcadin or even... lockadin?)

[Snowbluff]

:O Snowbluff! It's nice to see a familiar face from the 3.5 days.

I haven't had the time to delve much into 5e, I'm just sticking to making my archers (btw, hexblade archers are gorgeous). I'd tryint to learn more about the possibilities for these 3 fellas when it comes to high melee smacking power.

I wonder if putting these 3 together yield a higher overall dmg than just having two of them (say, sorlock or sorcadin or even... lockadin?) Mmm. Yes, I play 5e in meatspace, with a filthy fleshsack. I usually stick to 3.5 and a little PF online.

Well, let me put together a build that's 1) Strong 2) Beefy 3) focuses on the smacking bit then.

Basic Sorcadin is Paladin6/Sorcerer14.

So I'll do a compromise, with Paladin6/Sorcerer11/Warlock3.

Paladin: Oath of Devotion (charisma to attack for 1 min), Fighting Style (Great weapon, reroll damage dice), ASI: Great Weapon Master: -5 Attack, +10 damage

Sorcerer: MM: quicken, 2 Cha ASI

Warlock: Hexblade + Pact of the Blade, lets you use Cha to Greatsword attack. Hexblade curse: 1/SR add proficiency to damage and 19-20 crits to 1 target.

So you trade an ASI (not a big deal, because you need only CHA), 7th level spells and a sorcerer origin feature (for Draconic sorcerer, flight) for easier stats, Eldritch Blast combos (EB is a strong damage output, especially when quickened, or used in concert with a big quickened spell, which is strong enough to the point where it's a build unto itself), and prof to damage for a bit. I'd say it's trading utility for some damage output for sure.

[Everstar]

Paladin 7 can be worth it if you go Oath of the Ancients. Aura of Warding can be very useful depending on the campaign.

[Yuukale]

I just put together a Hexblade 2/Sorcerer 4/Paladin 2/Fighter 11 build, this guy's damage is quite high (I calculated around 185 without factoring in crits). 4ASIs and getting the fighter's third attack as capstone is sugar coating.

Of course, he's somewhat of a late bloomer, excelling against single-target dmg but no crowd-control capacities. A glass cannon, indeed.

[Arkhios]

Paladin 6/Sorcerer 5/Warlock 9 is all you need to get maximum possible damage from smites. Not very often, but this is a Nova Build so expect to run out spell slots really quickly.

RAW (according to Crawford) Eldritch Smite only works with Warlock's spell slots, so it caps to 6d8 extra damage at 5th level slots, while Divine Smite caps to 5d8 extra damage at 4th level slots.

So, as a Paladin 6/Sorcerer 5 you reach 8th level in Spellcasting meaning you get 2 × 4th level slots and Warlock 9 gives you separate 2 × 5th level slots for Eldritch Smite.

Greatsword or Maul (2d6)
4th-level Divine Smite (5d8)
5th-level Eldritch Smite (6d8)
Extra Attack from Paladin
Booming Blade from either Sorcerer or Warlock (extra +3d8/+4d8)

Assuming that both attacks and a Quickened Booming Blade hit, we're looking at something like this (2×4th-level Divine Smite, 2×5th-level Eldritch Smite, 1×3rd-level Divine Smite)
2×(2d6+5d8+6d8)+2d6+3d8+4d8
= avg. 151 damage before any bonuses and crits.

We get a total of 4 ASI and an extra feat as a variant human (GWM).
With Point-buy and human racials (+1str,+1cha) we get stats: Str 16, Dex 8, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 16.
Since we need only charisma as a Hexblade we can afford spending one ASI for Resilient (Con 16), and Str 15 is enough to wear plate. Our 4th ASI could be spent into taking anything we want, maybe Tough to mitigate 14 levels in classes with less than d10 hit die.

So, we have Cha 20 (+5 damage to each hit), GWM (+10 damage to each hit), Hexblade Curse (+6 damage from proficiency to each hit).
Now we're looking at a whopping average of 214 damage in just one turn, and that's still without crits

[Lombra]

I prefer to go paladin 2/sorcerer x. Comes online immediatly and allows for earlier flexible casting shenanigans, progresses linearly with the slots so you're functionally a fullcaster with melee explosions.

Alternatively pal 2/ sorc 6 / warlock x gives you short-rest slots which are nice, is just right to make 4th level slots with sorcerer, and eventually can even get extra attack, not to mention the potential double smite.

Extra attack isn't that important tho, you will quicken some melee cantrip for when you really need more hits, or you'll be casting haste on yourself, or both.

[Snowbluff]

I just put together a Hexblade 2/Sorcerer 4/Paladin 2/Fighter 11 build, this guy's damage is quite high (I calculated around 185 without factoring in crits). 4ASIs and getting the fighter's third attack as capstone is sugar coating.

Of course, he's somewhat of a late bloomer, excelling against single-target dmg but no crowd-control capacities. A glass cannon, indeed.


Paladin 6/Sorcerer 5/Warlock 9 is all you need to get maximum possible damage from smites. Not very often, but this is a Nova Build so expect to run out spell slots really quickly.

RAW (according to Crawford) Eldritch Smite only works with Warlock's spell slots, so it caps to 6d8 extra damage at 5th level slots, while Divine Smite caps to 5d8 extra damage at 4th level slots.

So, as a Paladin 6/Sorcerer 5 you reach 8th level in Spellcasting meaning you get 2 × 4th level slots and Warlock 9 gives you separate 2 × 5th level slots for Eldritch Smite.

Greatsword or Maul (2d6)
4th-level Divine Smite (5d8)
5th-level Eldritch Smite (6d8)
Extra Attack from Paladin
Booming Blade from either Sorcerer or Warlock (extra +3d8/+4d8)

Assuming that both attacks and a Quickened Booming Blade hit, we're looking at something like this (2×4th-level Divine Smite, 2×5th-level Eldritch Smite, 1×3rd-level Divine Smite)
2×(2d6+5d8+6d8)+2d6+3d8+4d8
= avg. 151 damage before any bonuses and crits.

We get a total of 4 ASI and an extra feat as a variant human (GWM).
With Point-buy and human racials (+1str,+1cha) we get stats: Str 16, Dex 8, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 16.
Since we need only charisma as a Hexblade we can afford spending one ASI for Resilient (Con 16), and Str 15 is enough to wear plate. Our 4th ASI could be spent into taking anything we want, maybe Tough to mitigate 14 levels in classes with less than d10 hit die.

So, we have Cha 20 (+5 damage to each hit), GWM (+10 damage to each hit), Hexblade Curse (+6 damage from proficiency to each hit).
Now we're looking at a whopping average of 214 damage in just one turn, and that's still without crits
I think I like where Arkhios is going here, using the cap for paladin I pointed out earlier. My big beef would be is that you only get 2 warlock smites and only 2 quickened spells (without eat slots midfight). I wonder what kind of compromises we could make to give it more longevity.

The problem with only 2 warlock levels is that you don't get the option to use Charisma with greatswords until you get pack of the blade.

Another tip I can give is using Aasimar from Volo's guide to Monsters. They can go super saiyan and add there level to damage in one way or another.

[Arkhios]

I think I like where Arkhios is going here, using the cap for paladin I pointed out earlier. My big beef would be is that you only get 2 warlock smites and only 2 quickened spells (without eat slots midfight). I wonder what kind of compromises we could make to give it more longevity.

The problem with only 2 warlock levels is that you don't get the option to use Charisma with greatswords until you get pack of the blade.

Another tip I can give is using Aasimar from Volo's guide to Monsters. They can go super saiyan and add there level to damage in one way or another.

If you're fine with not getting Aura of Protection (with plans to maxing out Charisma anyway, I find the idea counter-intuitive and -productive, though), you could just take 2 levels in paladin, and then at least 7 sorcerer levels for 2 x 4th-level spell slots. This would leave you free to take 2 more levels in Warlock, which would give you 3rd warlock spell slot (at warlock 11), but you'd be at otherwise similar bargain to usable spell slots and same potential maximum damage from smites for one round. You would lose one ASI this way, though.

What you would gain from this, is to have up to 4th-level known spells as a sorcerer, and if you chose Divine Soul, any number of them could be taken from cleric's spell list (Divine Soul is a good choice even for the previous build because of this). You can take Extra Attack with Blade Pact so that feature wouldn't be lost, only delayed.

Now that I think of it, (assuming I'd choose to not aim for Aura of Protection) I would just leave Warlock levels to 9, and take 9 levels in sorcerer in total, ending up with paladin 2/warlock 9/sorcerer 9 (though I'd prefer the order to be: Paladin 2 -> Warlock 5 -> Sorcerer 3 -> then fill out the rest as you want to). This way, you would be able to have up to 5th-level known spells as a sorcerer and a warlock, both, up to 2 x 5th level slots from both Standard Spellcasting and Pact Magic, and 4 ASI.

Fun fact: when 5th edition first came out, before I had even joined these forums or read anything in here, these build options were among the first character builds I made with 5th edition (obviously with only the core rules to play with). I blame too many years of 3.p and 4th edition character building mentality (= power first, flavor later) for that. I'm glad that's in the past now.

Edit: As a Scourge Aasimar, you could indeed add your character level as necrotic damage to melee or spell damage roll once per round for 1 minute (I don't have the book at hand right now, but I think it required Bonus Action or Action to activate first). As for stats as a Scourge Aasimar, Point-Buy could be like this: Str 15+1, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 10, Cha 10, Cha 14+2. As a melee monster whose whole purpose for spell slots is to fuel Smites, you don't absolutely need Resilient (Con), so you can forget it.

Or, if you plan to cast some spells too, Str 15+1, Dex 8, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14+2, and take Resilient (Con) instead of Tough.