Undead kineticist

[Crow_Nightfeath]

I was wondering just how it would work? Since it's immune to non-lethal and can't accept burn. Does that mean it just can't use the elemental overflow, metakinesis or the upgrades to elemental defense? Or would it not be able to use any ability that requires burn ie almost everything but basic blast?

[torrasque666]

It wouldn't be able to use any ability that adds burn since it cannot accept burn.

Some of her wild talents allow her to accept burn in exchange for a greater effect, while others require her to accept a certain amount of burn to use that talent at all.

[Crow_Nightfeath]

So in order to use any ability that requires burn it would have to use gather power?

[torrasque666]

So in order to use any ability that requires burn it would have to use gather power?
It would have to be able to reduce the burn down to 0 yes.

[Eldaran]

Undead Kineticist is not really advisable, but if you want to do it you might as well go Overwhelming Soul (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/kineticist/archetypes/paizo-llc-kineticist-archetypes/overwhelming-soul-kineticist-archetype/).

[Crow_Nightfeath]

Yeah, undead was really just an easy no explanation needed way to give a character immunity to non-lethal.

Sadly the more I look into kineticist the less and less awesome it is. I love the idea and how cool it sounds, but the burn is ridiculous, and it really doesn't get that awesome of abilities. And not being able to do anything beyond the normal blast without needing to take burn except by "charging up" for a round and a half.

[Kurald Galain]

Sadly the more I look into kineticist the less and less awesome it is. I love the idea and how cool it sounds, but the burn is ridiculous, and it really doesn't get that awesome of abilities. And not being able to do anything beyond the normal blast without needing to take burn except by "charging up" for a round and a half.

Yep. Non-undead kinny is not really advisable, either.

[Florian]

Yeah, undead was really just an easy no explanation needed way to give a character immunity to non-lethal.

Sadly the more I look into kineticist the less and less awesome it is. I love the idea and how cool it sounds, but the burn is ridiculous, and it really doesn't get that awesome of abilities. And not being able to do anything beyond the normal blast without needing to take burn except by "charging up" for a round and a half.

It´s basically a martial class with the attached baggage that people seem to want it to be some kind of "Elemental Wizard" or "Airbender", which it isn't and which mostly doesn't work in the over PF rules set. I don't know, maybe I should count myself to be lucky not not having seen that anime and be influenced by it to the point of repeating garbage?

Treat it like a Fighter or Ranger and come up with a decent switch-hitter build and stuff, including Burn, will actually work out. Yes, you will need a real weapon.

[Psyren]

That's a big part of why everyone is so disappointed with it. We all wanted a Warlock (a class that can do just fine with no weapon, and that gets a small suite of sub-par powers that can be used at will.) Making it elemental in theme rather than fiendish or fey was a great idea, and the idea of turning your HP into the "daily" resource for more powerful effects was also a great idea.

But the execution was just... I haven't seen a class miss the mark this badly since the Truenamer and Hexblade, and it's easily the most convoluted class I've ever seen printed too, putting both the Shadowcaster and the Occultist to shame. I would be willing to throw money at Paizo for Kineticist Unchained if they were ever willing to take another crack at it. (And before you ask, yes, I do have Spheres of Power.)

[N. Jolly]

Undead Kineticist is not really advisable, but if you want to do it you might as well go Overwhelming Soul (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/kineticist/archetypes/paizo-llc-kineticist-archetypes/overwhelming-soul-kineticist-archetype/).

If you're willing to look into 3p too, there's the Overwhelming Defense (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/kineticist-feats#toc51) and Overwhelming Prowess (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/kineticist-feats#toc52) which help out a bit. It's not a huge boost, but it does help make the archetype more manageable.


I would be willing to throw money at Paizo for Kineticist Unchained if they were ever willing to take another crack at it. (And before you ask, yes, I do have Spheres of Power.)

I mean, there's always the Legendary Kineticist (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/legendary-kineticist) if you're looking for a rewrite, and it works with all existing kineticist content.

[eldskald]

I think people underestimate the kineticist. He doesn't need to take any burn at all to do lots of damage. He starts slower than most martials, but he can deal more damage than most martials while doing battlefield control, aoe damage and being able to fly at will and other goodies real soon.

[Kurald Galain]

I think people underestimate the kineticist. He doesn't need to take any burn at all to do lots of damage. He starts slower than most martials, but he can deal more damage than most martials
Yeah, no.

We did the math on this when kinny came first out, and he does substantially less damage than a regular rogue or barbarian, and both of those classes are also much better at battlefield control.

That's the problem with flavorful classes based on a popular series: everybody assumes they're as great as the series, and it takes them a couple of sessions to realize that mechanically speaking, no they're not.

[Pyromancer999]

A decent* alternative to Overwhelming Kineticist would be Psychokineticist. It substitutes Wisdom for Constitution, and each point of burn gives a penalty to Wisdom and Will saves, though it reduces the amount of burn you can take.

*At least, if you do not have to worry about impaired Perception checks and/or enemies targeting you with loads of Will save effects.

[eldskald]

Yeah, no.

We did the math on this when kinny came first out, and he does substantially less damage than a regular rogue or barbarian, and both of those classes are also much better at battlefield control.

That's the problem with flavorful classes based on a popular series: everybody assumes they're as great as the series, and it takes them a couple of sessions to realize that mechanically speaking, no they're not.

Substantially? If the rogue lands all of his hits with sneak attack damage, then yes. But hitting all iteratives is hard. Once you factor composite blasts, their damage ups significantly. Did you also considered metakinesis? I saw a table here with their damage in the most optimized way, and I did myself tables for the other martials and I remember their damage being pretty good and consistent. And they can also aoe with no effort for all that damage. Or debuff and damage...

[Zanos]

Yeah, no.

We did the math on this when kinny came first out, and he does substantially less damage than a regular rogue or barbarian, and both of those classes are also much better at battlefield control.

That's the problem with flavorful classes based on a popular series: everybody assumes they're as great as the series, and it takes them a couple of sessions to realize that mechanically speaking, no they're not.
They do about as well as I would expect a bender to in a D&D setting.

But yeah, making a class to fit a very specific ability set from one show is not a great idea. If they wanted to make a warlock, they should have just made a warlock. And I happen to like Avatar.