Spartans

[Trey Bright]

So, Spartans are kinda known for wearing little to no armor yeah? (At least in fantasy, not in reality)... I was thinking a spartan would make great barbarian since they get bonuses to unarmored combat. The only real issue is the whole rage thing. Spartans don't really do...rage. They're more combat tacticts. I was thinking maybe a spartan that was kicked out of the legion for anger issues?

[Aett_Thorn]

So, Spartans are kinda known for wearing little to no armor yeah? (At least in fantasy, not in reality)... I was thinking a spartan would make great barbarian since they get bonuses to unarmored combat. The only real issue is the whole rage thing. Spartans don't really do...rage. They're more combat tacticts. I was thinking maybe a spartan that was kicked out of the legion for anger issues?

You can always refluff the rage as something else. I mean, just call it Combat Focus, or something like that, and you're fine. The extra damage can reflect your great training. The resistances can be accounted for by faster reflexes helping you avoid the brunt of the damage.

Choose the Soldier background and go to town.

[BobZan]

I view them as a mix of Barbarian and Fighter... they have their savage moments. They are not the stereotyped version of Barbarian, tho. More like how they were trained to survive and be fierce when necessary.

[alchahest]

in fantasy only, yeah. The spartan hoplites wore the heaviest armor around, bronze corinthian helmets, greaves, and often breastplates and protective leather skirts.

in terms of fantasy, just do a one level dip into barbarian on a battlemaster if bare-chested is really the draw for you. if not, you can consider the standard hoplite loadout to be similar to half plate (and just fluff it as you being tough, rather than actually covered in metal). take shield mastery and the UA spear master feat and the rest of your ASIs can go into strength, con, and dex

[JackPhoenix]

Can't... resist.....

https://flugelmeister.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/halowars___spartan_light_test_by_baldasseroni1-e1299786073879.jpg

[GlenSmash!]

You can always refluff the rage as something else. I mean, just call it Combat Focus, or something like that, and you're fine. The extra damage can reflect your great training. The resistances can be accounted for by faster reflexes helping you avoid the brunt of the damage.

Rage does not necessarily mean anger in the first place.

For a Berserker or Battlerager maybe, but a Totem Warrior has more of a Primal animal instinct Rage, an ancestral Guardian has a Gifts from the Spirits Rage, a Storm Herald has an connection with the elements Rage, and a Zealot has a divinely inspired Rage.

The majority of these are not frothing at the mouth Rages.

[Joe the Rat]

I view them as a mix of Barbarian and Fighter... they have their savage moments. They are not the stereotyped version of Barbarian, tho. More like how they were trained to survive and be fierce when necessary.

According to the Athenians, they were pretty barbaric.

But if you want to avoid Six-Pack Defense as the standard, you could borrow from Mazes and Minotaurs.
Your bronze armor pieces are
Breastplate: +2 AC
Great Helm: +2 AC
Greaves: +2 AC (I believe this was both arms and legs)

and Shield: +2 AC

So treat any one of the first three as Light (+Dex to AC), two as Medium (max +2 from Dex), and all three as Heavy (no Dex). So put on the hat and shiny cuffs, oil up, and act like you're in scale mail.

[Mith]

The only thing I would take from a Barbarian class for Spartans is Wolf Totem for Advantage to adjacent allies. But that doesn't work with the Heavy Armour. Otherwise I would go Fighter with Shield Master, Spear Master, Heavy Armour Mastery, and Protection or Dueling Fighting Style.

[NorthernPhoenix]

The "300" Spartans are plenty angry. They bit Barbarian perfectly imo.

If you want the "real" dudes, fighter is probably better.

[Vogie]

If I was building a stock movie Spartan, I'd probably do a Battle Master Tunnel Fighter 3/ Berzerker Barbarian X, with rage refluffed as a flow state, combat focus, or an intense concentration.

If I was building multiples, I'd throw in the occasional BarBearian Brutes, Mariner Wolf Totem Scouts and GWF Eagle Totem Champions too.

[Doug Lampert]

in fantasy only, yeah. The spartan hoplites wore the heaviest armor around, bronze corinthian helmets, greaves, and often breastplates and protective leather skirts.

And there's the famous line "come back with your shield or on it", which only makes sense if you've got a shield. Yeah, historical Spartans were typically the most heavily armored guys on the field and carried large shields to boot.

Two of the biggest fiascos we know of for Spartan arms were cases where a group of Spartans without their usual horde of auxiliaries got caught by a group of light troops (javelins or slingers), and got wiped because they had no ranged option and the other guys could keep the range open with their much faster movement speed. The Spartans were almost certainly in better physical condition, but they were heavies and simply couldn't catch the lighter enemies.

[Mith]

I kinda want to either play or run a game for a group of Spartans. Main method of attack being formation where they shield bash opponents to the ground circle and then spear them to death. It is a fairly limited party, but the idea is amusing for some reason.

[stack]

D&D is not really built to handle hoplite warfare. Shoulder to shoulder, several ranks deep, the front fighting and the back pressing the front ranks forward. No need 5 ft spaces.

Of course, rolling for an entire formation would be ludicrous anyhow. You would have to bolt on a mass combat system.

As for just getting the look, grab good heavy armor and refluff it. Need to 1 hand spears, shield in the other, feats as many have already noted. Fighter is best, though an archetype to specifically bolster teamwork in a shieldwall would be ideal.

I personally can't stand the '300 style' heroic nude nonsense. They didn't hold that pass by showing off their abs, they did it by being a tightly packed, bronze-clad meat grinder. And by the terrain perfectly suiting heavy infantry's strengths.

[Trey Bright]

Can't... resist.....

https://flugelmeister.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/halowars___spartan_light_test_by_baldasseroni1-e1299786073879.jpg

I approve.

[No brains]

If you are a Spartan barbarian you must regularly eat the 'black broth'. It is pig parts boiled in pig blood. You will never fear death for you will regularly taste it.:smallyuk:

[Tanarii]

So, Spartans are kinda known for wearing little to no armor yeah? (At least in fantasy, not in reality)... Personally, the movie 300 was the first time I ever encountered this kinda known in fantasy trope. To me, Fantasy Spartan always = bronze breastplate, large bronze shield, long but not too unwieldy if in ranks one-handed spear.

Afaik they did actually wear breastplates, but also the layered Linen armor stuff. Although that might have been Macedonian-era pike-length spear phalanxes.

[Trey Bright]

D&D is not really built to handle hoplite warfare. Shoulder to shoulder, several ranks deep, the front fighting and the back pressing the front ranks forward. No need 5 ft spaces.

Of course, rolling for an entire formation would be ludicrous anyhow. You would have to bolt on a mass combat system.

As for just getting the look, grab good heavy armor and refluff it. Need to 1 hand spears, shield in the other, feats as many have already noted. Fighter is best, though an archetype to specifically bolster teamwork in a shieldwall would be ideal.

I personally can't stand the '300 style' heroic nude nonsense. They didn't hold that pass by showing off their abs, they did it by being a tightly packed, bronze-clad meat grinder. And by the terrain perfectly suiting heavy infantry's strengths.

Gotcha. Hmmm.

[Azgeroth]

better idea, and you can totally spin it as a fantasy 'spartan' go look at how alexander the great, got to be so great.. TLDR; his dad built the greatest army the world had ever known, and it kicked the arse off of most of it..

also, look at roman military units/tactics. ceaser is a good one.

if you dont want to do that, heres a snippet..

Macedonian's perfected the phalanx, they had LONG spears (20+ft long ffs) and flanked the phalanx on either side by smaller more mobile units, also heavy cavalry..

romans, the tustedo! for when you really want to turtle.. also, very light armoured scouts (rogue scout), each soldier had a sword, and several javelins, something like splint/breastplate and a large shield.

go look up history civalis, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv_vLHiWVBh_FR9vbeuiY-A

and BazBattles, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx-dJoP9hFCBloY9qodykvw

give you a good idea of what the tactics used were like, what units were favoured and why..

[JackPhoenix]

better idea, and you can totally spin it as a fantasy 'spartan' go look at how alexander the great, got to be so great.. TLDR; his dad built the greatest army the world had ever known, and it kicked the arse off of most of it..

Wait, Genghis Khan was father of Alexander the Great?

[Kane0]

Wolf totem barbarian with half plate, spear and shield ought to do it. Chuck in some fighter or rogue to suit and you’re golden.

[Talamare]

Fighter with Heavy Armor, Lance, and Shield is the most accurate 'Spartan'.

Now how to get the Lance without penalties...

[JackPhoenix]

Fighter with Heavy Armor, Lance, and Shield is the most accurate 'Spartan'.

Now how to get the Lance without penalties...

I'd say spear and Spear Master feat instead of lance. Lance can't be used in one hand dismounted.

[GlenSmash!]

Fighter with Heavy Armor, Lance, and Shield is the most accurate 'Spartan'.

Now how to get the Lance without penalties...

Isn't Lance a weapon that's more effective for a mounted combatant? Were Spartans known for their Cavalry?

[stack]

Isn't Lance a weapon that's more effective for a mounted combatant? Were Spartans known for their Cavalry?

Classical Greek land warfare was pretty light on cavalry. They had some for scouting, skirmishing, and chasing down fleeing enemies, stuff like that, but Greece was not good horse country. The Greeks were most famous for heavy infantry.

[Ralanr]

Rage doesn’t always have to be screaming anger. Sometimes it’s quiet and focusing all that brain power on three different ways to gut you like a fish.

[War_lord]

Archaic Greek tactics was that both sides had a Hoplite formation, and they both just smashed into each other and shoved, grinding it it it out until one side gave up and routed. If you're thinking that sounds pretty sexual, Ancient Greece, that is all.

In the fourth century BC, generals from other Greek city states looking for ways to defeat Sparta figured out that a heavy Hoplite formation didn't have any real defense against Peltasts (troops with lighter equipment and Javelins rather then spears). After that the heavy Hoplite gradually disappeared, the creation of the Phalanx was basically the last nail in the coffin.

The only Greek city states to have any real tradition of cavalry were Taras on the southern coast of modern Italy, and the Thessalians, most famous as the heavy cavalry on the left wing of Alexander's army. Most of Greece is really unsuited to raising and deploying cavalry, so most Greek Cities after the Persians showed it was important had a very small cavalry contingent, who where basically limited to screening duties.

Oh, and the 300 Spartans held the pass with the aid of 700 Thespians. That movie is utter trash with an agenda.

[smcmike]

Wait, Genghis Khan was father of Alexander the Great?

While I realize this is sarcasm, the greatness of Gengis Khan’s army hardly prevents Philip’s army from being the greatest the world had ever known, 1,500 years prior.

Also, the anti-Spartan case:

https://taskandpurpose.com/the-spartans-were-morons/

[Laserlight]

Wait, Genghis Khan was father of Alexander the Great?

Genghis got around.

[JackPhoenix]

Genghis got around.

Considering the claim that 0.5% of total current human population may trace their ancestry to him, he certainly did.

Edit: my bad, only remembered Thebans

[Malifice]

Spartans don't really do...rage.

You sure about that?

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Sparta-Leonidas.jpg

Leonidas: LN Vuman Barbarian (2) Battlemaster Fighter (11) Protection F/S, Feats: Inspiring Leader, Tavern Brawler, +2 Str, +2 Con. Manouvers: Commanders strike, Goading attack, Precision strike, Menacing strike, Pushing attack, Rally.

On his turn, he wins initiative, enters Rage, and then kicks the Persian ambassador down the well, using a superiority die on Pushing attack.

THIS IS SPARTAAA!

[Talamare]

I'd say spear and Spear Master feat instead of lance. Lance can't be used in one hand dismounted.


Isn't Lance a weapon that's more effective for a mounted combatant? Were Spartans known for their Cavalry?

They were known for a Spears that are closest represented in DnD by the 'Lance' weapon.

Since the DnD Spear is basically a Javelin.

[GlenSmash!]

They were known for a Spears that are closest represented in DnD by the 'Lance' weapon.

Since the DnD Spear is basically a Javelin.

The were known for spears that were more effective while Mounted?

Also if the D&D Spear is basically a Javelin what is the D&D Javelin basically?

[Tanarii]

Also if the D&D Spear is basically a Javelin what is the D&D Javelin basically?The D&D Spear is basically a half-spear, assegia or iklwa or even siswai. 3-4 ft long.

The D&D 5e Pike is what most people think of a Spear, 5-7 ft long, requires 2 hands to use effectively. 5e doesn't have rules for formation fighting, but this is what Spartans would use one-handed with shield in formation. It wouldn't be effective trying to fight that way out of formation.

The D&D 5e Lance on foot is what most people would think of as a Pike, reach only (ie disadvantage to attack someone within 5ft), requires two hands to use.