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View Full Version : DM Help Spell-less, Magical Bard?



Captain Zark
2018-01-19, 03:36 PM
So, I have a bit of an odd one here. I'm going to be running a campaign in which spells are not cast, per se, but magic does exist, particularly in the forms of nature, song, and certain runic magics. My issue is bards. I'd like for them to be able to weave a kind of magic, but not necessarily "cast spells". Definitely nothing reality warping.

EDIT: Clarifications

Clerics, Paladins, Monks, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards do not exist. Demons and devils do not exist. Gods exist, but don't interfere with their creations.

To start, there exist 4 races. Man, Dwarf, Halfling, and Firbolg. All but Firbolg are generally superstitious, seeing magic as an unknown element that may or may not actually exist. Runes aren't generally used except by dwarves, and even then, most of runecraft has been forgotten. Firbolg are just naturally magical, they do not cast spells but they do things that other races would see as miraculous.

Nature magic works in the sense of being able to speak with animals (not that they can necessarily respond vocally), plants, and inanimate, but natural things like water and earth (Stones and rocks, in particular). You could affect the growth of a plant, and even use trees to travel, though such things are considered myth and story by the majority — in fact, most of these things are only possible for Firbolg, and they don't go showing them off to other races.

Elementals generally exist, though they're naturally occurring and tend not to interact with man.
Dragons exist, though the dwarves killed most of the intelligent ones in a bloody crusade, leaving drakes and wyverns.

There's a frozen tundra that has a living, creeping cold essence that has recently begun slinking further into civilized lands. It's capable of twisting creatures into abominations and is generally regarded as "evil". There's a subrace of dwarves that can resist the cold, preventing them from becoming mutated by it for the most part. As it is capable of twisting things, it is capable of twisting nature magic and, to a lesser degree, musical magic into the sort of magic you'd find in, say, the Witcher.

Music has the capability to inspire — exaggerations of the effects music has on people in the real world, such as increasing focus, creating fear or hope, and even going so far as to influence minds such as with charm or suggestion —, and cause some small miracles, such as being able to mend things together and heal wounds.
Such things are not so much practiced as they are stumbled upon, like "I strummed my lute and it just sort of happened" kinda thing.

Runic magics work as they would in, say, Lord of the Rings. You can seal doors, create areas that which sound does not enter or leave — though not like [I]silence[/s], more like an aura of privacy in which those present can hear each other, but those outside cannot hear inside and vice versa — and some ancient things may even grant certain magical effects, not unlike the rings of power though, again, the common folk view such items as myth and legend. Most runic magics were used by Dwarves and have long since been forgotten, for the most part.

DivisibleByZero
2018-01-19, 03:39 PM
In order to help you make Bards fit, we first have to know what this magic is and how it works.
Do Wizards exist? Sorcerers? Druids? Clerics? Warlocks?
If they do, how does their magic work?
How do the "nature, song, and runic magics" work?

Once we know that, maybe we can help. With the little information you've presented, I don't think anyone can help you make something that fits your campaign.

Unoriginal
2018-01-19, 04:43 PM
Do magical creature still get innate spellcasting?

Captain Zark
2018-01-19, 04:45 PM
In order to help you make Bards fit, we first have to know what this magic is and how it works.
Do Wizards exist? Sorcerers? Druids? Clerics? Warlocks?


No, wizards, sorcerers, druids, clerics, and warlocks do not exist. "Demons and Devils" do not exist so much as monsters and corruptions of nature. Gods exist but they have a largely hands-off agenda.

[QUOTE=DivisibleByZero;22768733]How do the "nature, song, and runic magics" work?

To start, there exist 4 races. Man, Dwarf, Halfling, and Firbolg. All but Firbolg are generally superstitious, seeing magic as an unknown element that may or may not actually exist. Runes aren't generally used except by dwarves, and even then, most of runecraft has been forgotten. Firbolg are just naturally magical, they do not cast spells but they do things that other races would see as miraculous.

Nature magic works in the sense of being able to speak with animals (not that they can necessarily respond vocally), plants, and inanimate, but natural things like water and earth (Stones and rocks, in particular). You could affect the growth of a plant, and even use trees to travel, though such things are considered myth and story by the majority — in fact, most of these things are only possible for Firbolg, and they don't go showing them off to other races.

Elementals generally exist, though they're naturally occurring and tend not to interact with man.
Dragons exist, though the dwarves killed most of the intelligent ones in a bloody crusade, leaving drakes and wyverns.

There's a frozen tundra that has a living, creeping cold essence that has recently begun slinking further into civilized lands. It's capable of twisting creatures into abominations and is generally regarded as "evil". There's a subrace of dwarves that can resist the cold, preventing them from becoming mutated by it for the most part. As it is capable of twisting things, it is capable of twisting nature magic and, to a lesser degree, musical magic into the sort of magic you'd find in, say, the Witcher.

Music has the capability to inspire — exaggerations of the effects music has on people in the real world, such as increasing focus, creating fear or hope, and even going so far as to influence minds such as with charm or suggestion —, and cause some small miracles, such as being able to mend things together and heal wounds.
Such things are not so much practiced as they are stumbled upon, like "I strummed my lute and it just sort of happened" kinda thing.

Runic magics work as they would in, say, Lord of the Rings. You can seal doors, create areas that which sound does not enter or leave — though not like [I]silence[/s], more like an aura of privacy in which those present can hear each other, but those outside cannot hear inside and vice versa — and some ancient things may even grant certain magical effects, not unlike the rings of power though, again, the common folk view such items as myth and legend. Most runic magics were used by Dwarves and have long since been forgotten, for the most part.

Captain Zark
2018-01-19, 04:47 PM
Do magical creature still get innate spellcasting?

Within reason. For example, a dragon can still breathe fire, an elemental could do elementally things, etc.

Unoriginal
2018-01-19, 04:53 PM
Within reason. For example, a dragon can still breathe fire, an elemental could do elementally things, etc.

Those are magical natural abilities. I'm talking about things like "drow have innate spells".



No, wizards, sorcerers, druids, clerics, and warlocks do not exist. "Demons and Devils" do not exist so much as monsters and corruptions of nature. Gods exist but they have a largely hands-off agenda.

[...]

Music has the capability to inspire — exaggerations of the effects music has on people in the real world, such as increasing focus, creating fear or hope, and even going so far as to influence minds such as with charm or suggestion —, and cause some small miracles, such as being able to mend things together and heal wounds.
Such things are not so much practiced as they are stumbled upon, like "I strummed my lute and it just sort of happened" kinda thing.

Well I guess you should not include Bards per se and just give appropriate minor effects (look at Charms in the DMG, for ex.) in some situations when people perform music.

Captain Zark
2018-01-19, 05:13 PM
Those are magical natural abilities. I'm talking about things like "drow have innate spells".

That just depends on the spells they have access to. For example, Darkness would have to be rewritten as putting torches out and making natural darkness seem "darker". Faerie fire would probably have to go, as it makes people... glow... kinda.



Well I guess you should not include Bards per se and just give appropriate minor effects (look at Charms in the DMG, for ex.) in some situations when people perform music.

See, I was hoping to keep bardic inspirations and such in play. I suppose I'm really looking for some sort of magical, lute-playing rogue that isn't the Arcane Trickster. I was hoping for something different, though.

That being said, charms kinda puts me on the right path. Perhaps something akin to warlock evocations, but instead they're bardic songs that you can play X times per Y?

History_buff
2018-01-19, 06:29 PM
Replace arcane trickster rogue with bard as an archetype. Just make an amalgamation of the two and give bardic inspiration as a third level ability. Home brew the rest of the archetype abilities with a bard feel to them.

Asmotherion
2018-01-19, 07:05 PM
Give the bard the ability to cast Vicious Mockery as a subtle enchantment through their Songs/Art as the bare minimum.

You can go for it as suggested (Arcane Trickster progression, but Charisma instead of Intelligance as a Caster stat, and Bard spell list instead of Wizard spell list). As long as the Campain starts at level 3+, there should be no problems.

I'm sorry... I'm a little touchy in "no sorcerers, no warlocks" campains, so I want to make sure the Charisma caster that survives gets his theme correctly :P

Captain Zark
2018-01-19, 08:00 PM
Give the bard the ability to cast Vicious Mockery as a subtle enchantment through their Songs/Art as the bare minimum.

You can go for it as suggested (Arcane Trickster progression, but Charisma instead of Intelligance as a Caster stat, and Bard spell list instead of Wizard spell list). As long as the Campain starts at level 3+, there should be no problems.

I'm sorry... I'm a little touchy in "no sorcerers, no warlocks" campains, so I want to make sure the Charisma caster that survives gets his theme correctly :P

I don't blame you. I want to keep its theme as much as possible, just without a glaring "This is a spellcaster" feel (to clarify, it would still use magic, I just want it to blend with the more "mundane" classes a little better). I definitely wouldn't have removed Vicious Mockery, even if I couldn't make it fit (which I can), I find it too amusing to remove.

Crgaston
2018-01-20, 07:06 AM
How about letting them use their spell slots for bardic inspiration instead of spells? Add 1 to the die for each slot level above 1, or alternately, let the slot level dictate how many creatures they can affect?

Quietus
2018-01-20, 11:18 AM
I would probably just take Rogue, and give them the "bard" sub class - give them the ability to use Bardic Inspiration at level 3, short rest recharge at 6, and maybe give them some small but interesting magic bits at higher levels, or let them choose from the other Inspiration-related benefits that other subclasses get. I don't know if that's going to be enough to cover the "Bards are slightly magical" feel you want, though.