How does XGtE "fix" Druids?

[Schwann145]

Another claim I've seen lately is that Xanathar's goes a long way to fix Druid problems. How so? I did a cursory glance through the spells and nothing particularly jumped out at me, and while the new Circles are interesting, they're basically just different takes on the Circle of Land druid - spellcasters with a different focus. Meanwhile, the "can't really mix shapeshifting and casting very well" issue remains a problem until level 18.
So what problem(s) does XG actually address?

[Foxhound438]

So what problem(s) does XG actually address?

Land druid has the issue that the features don't really add anything to what the druid can do- Nat recovery is kind of moot in most games, circle spells are good to have but don't really give much new, and land stride, nature ward, and nature sanctuary are all super situational. The big problem there is that if your DM doesn't happen to give you places where those abilities are seeing their exact condition, they do nothing.

In contrast, CoD has healing and mobility that you can activate on your command, and CotS gives you unique (somewhat) buffs for your team and bonuses for a specific playstyle (conjure spam). The difference is that you have agency in where your abilities matter. You use them, rather than "your DM chooses to use these mechanics that you're allowed to ignore".

CotM was the de-facto only good choice before because the abilities were in your control. XGE makes it so there are other choices that give you abilities that you control.

[Gardakan]

Not being able to mix WS and spellcasting until level 18 isn't a needed fix. It's a design choice. One that is quite ok.

Druids can still cast a concentration spell before Wild Shaping and concentrate on it for a duration.

They are full spellcasters with healing, good utility and potent battlefield control.

Features of the Druid are clear.

Sheperd : Adds lot of utility. This can make for a potent support that buffs hp and heals with Unicorn/Bear. Hawk is still useful when you know you're seeking something (a case could easily be made for tracking things).

Dream : It's a pretty creative way of tweaking the Druid. It adds divination into a class that basically never had much.

Moon is WS and Land is basically a Druid with some domains to choose from.

No need to say that Druid doesn't need a fix. Healing Spirit is even a really strong heal... more powerful then Prayer of Healing.

Priest got an insane tool in Life Transference in Xanathar. Druids don't.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I wasn't aware that Druids either needed "fixing" or that Xanathar's provided that for them? Although Foxhound438's point is well-taken-- the new subclasses are nice for adding new abilities to the basic Druid chassis, rather than just making them slightly better at what they were already doing.

[jas61292]

Land druid has the issue that the features don't really add anything to what the druid can do- Nat recovery is kind of moot in most games, circle spells are good to have but don't really give much new, and land stride, nature ward, and nature sanctuary are all super situational. The big problem there is that if your DM doesn't happen to give you places where those abilities are seeing their exact condition, they do nothing.

In contrast, CoD has healing and mobility that you can activate on your command, and CotS gives you unique (somewhat) buffs for your team and bonuses for a specific playstyle (conjure spam). The difference is that you have agency in where your abilities matter. You use them, rather than "your DM chooses to use these mechanics that you're allowed to ignore".

CotM was the de-facto only good choice before because the abilities were in your control. XGE makes it so there are other choices that give you abilities that you control.

I think you have it backwards. People do love CotM because it is cool and is is poorly balanced, letting you feel like a god for a tiny fraction of levels. But overall, Land druids are the ones who get abilities that expand upon what a druid can do, while Moon only gets abilities that take away from the key strengths of the class to begin with.

XGtE was nice because it gave druids options that do not take away from its core abilities, but is more specialized than just being a nature wizard, like the Land Druids are.

[DivisibleByZero]

I think you have it backwards. People do love CotM because it is cool and is is poorly balanced, letting you feel like a god for a tiny fraction of levels. But overall, Land druids are the ones who get abilities that expand upon what a druid can do, while Moon only gets abilities that take away from the key strengths of the class to begin with.

XGtE was nice because it gave druids options that do not take away from its core abilities, but is more specialized than just being a nature wizard, like the Land Druids are.

I agree with this completely, and have always considered moon druids extremely over rated.
Sure moon druids are cool, but land druids are much cooler IMO.
Shepard and dreams are both more specialized versions of land.

[Asmotherion]

I was under the impression that everyone agreed Druids were the Woodland analog to Wizards of 5e? Why would they need a fix? XGTE just adds interesting alternative paths to an already awesome and super-buffed class.

Just think about it, what do Druids not get?

-Ways to cast awesome Cantrips? Check
-Ways to gish effectivelly through Shillelagh? Check
-Ways to Melee? Check
-Ways to Heal? Check
-Ways to Buff/Debuff? Check
-Ways to be full casters with AoEs? Check
-Ways to change their role at every long rest by changing their spell list like clerics do? Check
-Ways to not die by having a better HD than most casters? Check
-Ways to revive fallen allies? Check

And I honestly think I might be forgetting something. How can anyone think this class needs a Fix?

[samcifer]

I wish there was a striker subclass for them that added spells that don't require concentration like most of their damaging spells have.

[Gardakan]

I think you have it backwards. People do love CotM because it is cool and is is poorly balanced, letting you feel like a god for a tiny fraction of levels. But overall, Land druids are the ones who get abilities that expand upon what a druid can do, while Moon only gets abilities that take away from the key strengths of the class to begin with.

XGtE was nice because it gave druids options that do not take away from its core abilities, but is more specialized than just being a nature wizard, like the Land Druids are.

Moon is pretty balanced. You have power spikes when you get new forms available. As every archetype have some sort of power spikes (attack twice for fighter at level 5 as an example).

[sambojin]

All druids tend to have pretty similar power spikes at 5th, 6th, and a couple more at 7-8th (they're a caster thing, not a Moon Druid thing).

I'm not entirely sure if they needed fixing. They may not be "top tier" damage-wise in 1-2 rounds, but they're certainly competitive on "ease of use".

A V.human druid of any sort with the Alertness feat is still one of the safest characters to play in 5e. And it's not like there aren't any other options. Very good options.

Did it fix them? Nope. It just gave other ways of doing them. Didn't really break/unbreak druid stuff, or make them much more powerful or weaker. It's just nice that there's now other sorts of druid, that are legit 5e.

In many ways, XGtE sent the message from WotC that "Yes, that's what druids are in this edition. Here, have more of it."
For good or bad. Fixed, unbroken, or properly powered, this is what druids are. Enjoy!

[Citan]

Land druid has the issue that the features don't really add anything to what the druid can do- Nat recovery is kind of moot in most games, circle spells are good to have but don't really give much new, and land stride, nature ward, and nature sanctuary are all super situational. The big problem there is that if your DM doesn't happen to give you places where those abilities are seeing their exact condition, they do nothing.

In contrast, CoD has healing and mobility that you can activate on your command, and CotS gives you unique (somewhat) buffs for your team and bonuses for a specific playstyle (conjure spam). The difference is that you have agency in where your abilities matter. You use them, rather than "your DM chooses to use these mechanics that you're allowed to ignore".

CotM was the de-facto only good choice before because the abilities were in your control. XGE makes it so there are other choices that give you abilities that you control.
To be blunt, I'd really argue that more than "Land Druid benefits being situational", problem lies within you for not knowing well enough how to exploit Land Druid's strengths. ;)

Natural Recovery moot in most games?
- That just means you forget to prepare instant spells, which is a shame because Druids have several good ones, especially Land ones (Earth Tremor, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Healing Words, Thunderwave, Plant Growth)...
- And you don't realize either that extra fuel means extra chance to land encounter-changing spells such as Hold Person (let's all keep in mind that offensive spells can actually miss, something people tend to forget in theorycraft)...
- Or extra fuel to protect yourself (Mirror Image, Warding Wind) or use more niche spells (divination spells or some defense/mobility spells for example) without having regrets...

Land Stride situational?
Well, if you are waiting for your DM to put you in difficult terrain from natural origin, sure... But you are just lazy then.
Although Spike Growth could be argued as "magical plants" because of the part saying it is camouflaged (not sure of RAW here but I definitely make it compatible with Land Stride in my games, so there is that)... However, Plant Growth is definitely ok. As well as difficult terrain created by Earth Tremor or Erupting Earth for example... But not Wall of Thorns per my reading (you "create" a wall of thorns whereas other spells change existing terrain).

So easiest way to make use of it is with Plant Growth, creating a natural "mobility wall" in which you only can move normally, using Thorns Whip to pull creatures under a Moonbeam or inside a Spike Growth effect for example...
You could also, although that IS certainly situational, use it around a friend under heavy threat of dying to prevent melee enemies reaching him, while yourself can Dash and grapple him back to safety... ^^

More generally, a Land Druid could make himself a pretty good tank by building on those kind of tactics of environment-altering spells (which he has a bootload of), provided a dip or multiclass in another class though (for better resilience and martial damage).

Nature Ward?
It is as situational in essence as some spells or other features from other classes... Of course if you never encounter those kind of enemies, nor enemies trying to poison or "disease" you, it will be useless... ^^
I agree that encountering elementals is fairly rare but I wouldn't say as much for feys (imse anyways).
Same with poison (not "common", but still happens on occasion between monsters, traps and assassins) vs disease (no idea how comomn it is for others, but as a player I had such a situation, like thrice in all games XD).

Nature's Sanctuary
THAT one is very situtional, I 100% agree with you on this one.
IMO the problem is that beasts are usually not a problem anymore at that level (and not commonly encountered in the first place), even in swarms (unless of course beast-heavy mission, but I don't see any right now) and the fact that the beast is aware of the effect.
I guess they felt it very powerful as worded, but I wouldn't have minded personally to see it pushed much earlier... Or if at least beast became aware of that effect only after it decides to attack you.
The way I see it it's more like a "ribbon+++" than a true benefit, sadly... ^^

[PhantomSoul]

To be blunt, I'd really argue that more than "Land Druid benefits being situational", problem lies within you for not knowing well enough how to exploit Land Druid's strengths. ;)

Natural Recovery moot in most games?
- That just means you forget to prepare instant spells, which is a shame because Druids have several good ones, especially Land ones (Earth Tremor, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Healing Words, Thunderwave, Plant Growth)...
- And you don't realize either that extra fuel means extra chance to land encounter-changing spells such as Hold Person (let's all keep in mind that offensive spells can actually miss, something people tend to forget in theorycraft)...
- Or extra fuel to protect yourself (Mirror Image, Warding Wind) or use more niche spells (divination spells or some defense/mobility spells for example) without having regrets...

[...]

I think the situationalness of Natural Recovery might come down to lots of people apparently having five-minute workdays, so anything short_rest-refreshed doesn't have as much benefit as it "should". And for Natural Recovery and Arcane Recovery, since it's giving you partial refreshment of a long-rest resource on a short rest, only having long rests nullifies the whole feature. That said, that would be worth talking about with a DM if it comes up as an issue, since not having short rests (or having only very few and inconsistently) has a big effect on which classes will feel really disappointing.

[WickerNipple]

I wasn't aware Druids had any real problems.

[Foxhound438]

To be blunt, I'd really argue that more than "Land Druid benefits being situational", problem lies within you for not knowing well enough how to exploit Land Druid's strengths. ;)

well thanks for insulting my intelligence, sorry for posting an opinion you don't agree with.