Help with feat progression for Battle Master Tank

[trctelles]

Hey guys! Me and my friends will start a new campaign from lvl 1, and I was "designated" as the party tank. We roled for stats and I got the best all around stats, so the party (me included) decided that I would do best at melee and tanking. The party will be of me as fighter, a bard, a sorcerer and a rogue. We decided to do some Dungeon Crawling and then start the Hoard of the Dragon Queen (after we get some sinergy and lvls with the party).

The stats I got are the following:


STR 16 (15 +1 from Heavy Armor Master)
DEX 14 (13+1 from V-Human)
CON 16
INT 12
WIS 16
CHA 12 (Was 11 +1 from V-human)


(These stats are so sexy for me. All even numbers and at least +1 :smallcool: )

And, as stated before, I took Heavy Armor Master as my feat from V-Human. We're only allowed to pick stuff from PHB and Xanathar's.
I decided to get WIS at 16 over DEX because I want to have better chances against spells with WIS saves and not be incapacitaded by them.
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Since I won't need to upgrade my stats any time soon, I thought about the following progression:

PAM at lvl 4
Sentinel at lvl 6
GWM at lvl 8 (Or maybe Tough, I'm not sure... If we don't have much trouble with dealing damage I might go with Tough)

I know GWM is not a tanky feat, but if the enemy is dead, they don't do damage right :smallbiggrin:

As maneuvers, I'll get Trip Attack, Parry (since I have decent DEX) and Precision Attack (If I end up getting GWM this will help a lot!)
The other maneuvers don't impress me that much, so any suggestion is welcome.

If we end up finding some good magic items (The 19 STR Gauntlets of Ogre Power in particular) I might never use a ASI for atributes, and just grab a ton of feats.

Resilient (WIS) is good too I guess, but I would have to change my stats, and since I would only get it at lvl 12 or 14 (depending if I get GWM) I would have an odd value at WIS for most of my career.

Any help is welcome!

[Nidgit]

You should talk to your party, in particular your sorcerer, to see if they already know what subclasses they're going with. Your party is awfully light on healing and with your excellent stats you might want to consider something more naturally MAD to make use of them. Paladin would be a great choice, as would Ranger or Barbarian.

If you're going Battlemaster, your feat progression looks great. You might consider taking STR +2 at Level 8 to keep your accuracy up since as you've stated, GWM is less essential to the build. On the flip side, GWM makes a bigger difference earlier on. So you're fine as is.

[bid]

As maneuvers, I'll get Trip Attack, Parry (since I have decent DEX) and Precision Attack (If I end up getting GWM this will help a lot!)
The other maneuvers don't impress me that much, so any suggestion is welcome.
First, I'm surprised you aren't going sword and board with shield master. Using polearm weakens your AC and you'll need more hp to compensate (tough feat is nice here).

Second, if you have a 2-hander and of the school "damage is its own defense", you should grab riposte over parry. Or just take the hit and reserve your reaction for sentinel.

Third, your rogue would love commander's strike. A second sneak attack is more damage than you could ever do. (you would do 1d10+3+1d8+10 ~ 23 with GWM and prolly miss, compare to rogue's 1d6+4+5d6 ~ 25 at level 9)

I also believe goading/menacing against Wis save is better than trip against Str save.

[Ellisthion]

Read the title as "Main Battle Tank", was confused. :smallsmile:

If your goal is "tank", I'd agree with Nidgit that Paladin might be more appropriate. The party's short on healing and Aura of Protection is amazing for protecting your entire party, because no matter how hard you try they're going to get hit by area effects.

If you're invested in Battle Master then your build is okay but I wouldn't get too invested in your Feat choices before seeing how things play out in the game. Eg: you might need to take more defensive options if it seems like that's your problem.

[trctelles]

I'm not going sword and board because this style doesn't suit me at all. I'm more of a DPR kind of guy, but since I agreed on making a tank to best serve the party, I'll go with a bit more damage. With Heavy Armor Master, I think I'll be an Excellent meat-shield, even more on the early level's. The Polearm master +Sentinel is to keep big hitters from reaching the squishy members of the party.

Since we have a rogue, I just might go Tough at lvl 8 and be tankier.

[Biggstick]

Hoard of the Dragon Queen involves fighting against Dragons. You are a melee-focused Fighter. If you want to be able to get close to the Dragons, you're going to need Resilient Wisdom. This is something that you really can't go without, especially as a Fighter. You NEED to build for that if you plan on being an effective tank for HotDQ.

Next point is that you're not going to be an effective front-liner without Barbarian Rage, or a massively high AC. PAM is an incredibly powerful feat, but you won't be tankier because of it. You'll find yourself getting hit much more often with 16 AC (17 if you go with Defense as your fighting style) and no shield versus 18 AC (19 if you go Defense as your fighting style). You'll simply be a front-liner if you go PAM, not a tank. I'm going to assume you want to stick with the PAM though, so let's continue our build assumptions along the line that you are going with HAM as your Human feat to help with the lowered AC and PAM at level 4 to bring the damage.

So as I talked about, you should care about your Wisdom saves with this character. The only things you should be worried about on this character is Strength, Constitution, and Wisdom. Everything else is extra, and you don't have to worry about any dump stats (under 10), so allocation of your stats should be to improve those strengths while setting up for Resilient Wisdom to be picked up at level 6 or level 8. Here is what I'd suggest for your stat layout.

Str: 18 (+1 Human, +1 HAM)
Dex: 14 (+1 Human)
Con: 16
Int: 11
Wis: 15
Cha: 12

Your layout had you at 16 Strength, and while that's a solid Str score, getting 18 just does so much for you. It increases chance to hit, total damage done with your regular attack actions and bonus action attacks. Once you're level 5, and making attacks, you'll have +8 to hit, and do a minimum of 5 damage per hit (4+dice roll). It just increases your threat imo, and makes it so you don't have to ever worry about getting your Strength up to 20.

I chose to put the +1 (and consequently the 14) into Dex versus anything else, as Int and Cha are useless for this character. Being able to increase your Initiative and help with your Dexterity saves is more valuable overall to the melee-focused character. It also makes it so that you can pull out a Longbow and shoot things decently well. Your Battlemaster Combat Maneuvers work just as well with ranged attacks as they do with melee attacks (so you should choose your Maneuvers accordingly).

So to the Combat Maneuvers, these should help you kill the enemy faster or keep the enemy from approaching your squishy allies. Maneuvers that appeal to me in your particular situation include: Commander's Strike, Disarming Attack, Maneuvering Strike, Menacing Attack, Riposte, and Trip Attack. Riposte is the most greedy, and one I consider essential on any Battlemaster. Your other Maneuvers selected however, should be looking to help your allies. In particular, since you have a Rogue, Trip Attack and Commander's Strike are both very appealing. Either one of these would be great to choose at level 3. As my third Maneuver, I'd go with Menacing Attack, as the fear effect keeps enemies from approaching you, and if you position yourself correctly your allies will be safe for at least one turn. I listed all the other Maneuvers, as they are all considerations I'd make once I get to level 7.

Now as to actual build/ASI progression, I've talked about HAM at level 1 and PAM at level 4. I've also talked about Resilient Wisdom at levels 6 or 8. I want to emphasize the ability to succeed on your Saving Throw versus the Fear checks you'll expect in HotDQ; if you can't make the save, you can't approach the creature you're afraid of. If you can't get near the enemy as a melee character, you're pretty useless. With that in mind, and Resilient Wisdom getting picked up at level 6 or 8, you have an open choice here. Do you want to do more damage (GWM) or do you want to become a huge pain in your DM's side (Sentinel)? Do you want something a bit more utility/defensive based (Lucky, Alert, Mobile, Tough)? Personally, I'd look to Lucky here, as it helps defend you from enemy critical hits (defensive), have a second chance at making a saving throw (defensive), take another chance to hit against a Big Bad (offensive), or used out of combat to roll a second d20 on what you assume is a failed skill check (utility). However, I see the value in taking GWM or Sentinel for combat purposes, and they're great choices for a primary melee Battlemaster. If you plan on picking up GWM at 6 or 8, you'll be able to pick up the Precision Combat Maneuver at level 7 to deal with the -5 attack rolls.

TLDR; Start with 18 Strength, 16 Con, 15 Wis, 14 Dex, Defense Fighting Style. Feat progression: HAM (lvl 1), PAM (lvl 4), Resilient Wis (lvl 6), Lucky, Sentinel, or GWM (lvl 8). Combat Maneuvers: Riposte and Menacing Attack. Your third Maneuver choice should be something that helps allies. Using a Longbow and your Combat Maneuvers is an option you always have available. Don't be afraid to take the Dodge Action should you be against something way stronger then you.

[trctelles]

I've adjusted my stats to get the 18 STR/14 DEX/ 16 CON/ 11 INT/ 15 WIS/12 CHA . I'll get resilient WIS at lvl 8 to get better chances against the dragon fear. My sorcerer is still deciding if he'll go Divine Soul or Draconic, so not too sure if I'll have much healing support. The bard took Cure Wounds as one of his spells, and he seems to be going to a more support oriented bard, so he might get some more spells to help me out.
Regarding sword and board builds that people told me about, I think I'll follow the PAM and Sentinel anyway. I don't want to just be a meat shield in front of the backline, I want to do relevant damage too.

I guess I'll be tanky with my feat choices, but not a tank per say.

[Talamare]

If you really want to be a Tank, then pick up a Shield

In 5e No Shield = No Tank.

If you just want to be a front line tough guy, then your build looks fine enough.
Just don't be surprised if your Rogue can Tank more punishment than you.