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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Really Simple: Druid Circle Spells with Xanathar's / Elemental Evil substitutions



Beelzebubba
2018-01-21, 06:45 PM
A few spells in Xanathar's / Elemental Evil Companion seem more in tune with some of the Druid circles.

Here's what I'm thinking:

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Circle of the Coast
5th Level: Maelstrom instead of Scrying
Makes more sense, and the circle doesn't currently have any battlefield control spells.

Circle of the Forest
3rd Level: Warding Wind instead of Barkskin
5th Level: Guardian of Nature instead of Divination
I'm not totally sure about this swap. But: Barkskin seems to be more useful to Moon Druids, and Guardian of Nature - especially Great Tree - is just as on-theme and fantastic for Land Druids. But, Divination usually isn't on the Druid list, so losing that might not be worth it, and Warding Wind is slightly off-theme, so IMO this is a wash and I'm open to ideas.

Circle of the Mountain
2nd Level: Earthbind instead of Spider Climb
Debatable, I'm not married to it, but feels a bit more like 'the mountain wants YOU' instead of 'the mountain wants ME'. :smallsmile:
5th Level: Erupting Earth instead of Lightning Bolt
They're both offensive, blasting spells, but one of them is more about earth and rock.

Circle of the Swamp
4th Level: Watery Sphere instead of Locate Creature
Better flavor, a bit more offensive punch, and not losing anything from the spell list.

Circle of the Underdark
4th Level: Sickening Radiance instead of Greater Invisibility
This one is a bit odd too, but hear me out: this is basically like covering someone with phosphorescence and doing radiant damage at the same time; it's a super duper Faerie Fire and perfect for messing up Underdark undead. It kicks Greater Invisibility off their spell list, but Druids kind of get some notion of that already with Wild Shape (into a centipede or whatever) and Pass Without Trace, and this pulls a different, more flavorful Wizard spell to replace it in the process.

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Thoughts?

AureusFulgens
2018-01-22, 09:35 AM
Some disorganized, stream-of-consciousness reflections on these changes:


A few spells in Xanathar's / Elemental Evil Companion seem more in tune with some of the Druid circles.
Circle of the Coast
5th Level: Maelstrom instead of Scrying
Makes more sense, and the circle doesn't currently have any battlefield control spells.

Seems reasonable to me. I'd probably be inclined to keep scrying myself - it just seems to fit to me, I don't really know why, maybe something about seeing visions in the surface of the ocean or something? - but I'd have no issues with the switch if, say, one of my players wanted it.



Circle of the Forest
3rd Level: Warding Wind instead of Barkskin
5th Level: Guardian of Nature instead of Divination
I'm not totally sure about this swap. But: Barkskin seems to be more useful to Moon Druids, and Guardian of Nature - especially Great Tree - is just as on-theme and fantastic for Land Druids. But, Divination usually isn't on the Druid list, so losing that might not be worth it, and Warding Wind is slightly off-theme, so IMO this is a wash and I'm open to ideas.

I'd be disinclined to switch out barkskin - for flavor reasons, since it just fits so well. If I was going to switch it out, I'm not sure my replacement would be warding wind. Maybe Maximilian's earth grasp? Though I'm not sure that replacement is any better flavor-wise.

I'd be all right with the guardian of nature switch, though. You're right to be concerned about taking a spell that isn't on their list, since the only other non-druid spell in this circle is spider climb, but I don't think they'll miss divination much. I wouldn't. Let the cleric handle that.



Circle of the Mountain
2nd Level: Earthbind instead of Spider Climb
Debatable, I'm not married to it, but feels a bit more like 'the mountain wants YOU' instead of 'the mountain wants ME'. :smallsmile:
5th Level: Erupting Earth instead of Lightning Bolt
They're both offensive, blasting spells, but one of them is more about earth and rock.

This gets into some interesting questions about what the Mountain druid *is*. A mountain is basically a mound of rock in the sky, so which is more important - the rock part, or the sky part? Spider climb is more about the "up" part, while earthbind is more about the "rock/ground" part. Similarly with the other switch.

Of course, I think I like the original pair because the mountain druid in the last campaign I ran did something REALLY badass with spider climb (he cast it on their halfling barbarian and then got a fighter with enhance ability to throw her at the witch in giant eagle form they were fighting, and she proceeded to sit upside-down on the eagle's belly hacking at it with her greataxe for the whole battle...), and I just like lightning. So I might be biased.



Circle of the Swamp
4th Level: Watery Sphere instead of Locate Creature
Better flavor, a bit more offensive punch, and not losing anything from the spell list.

Entirely down with this. Though the Swamp circle isn't exactly lacking offensive power to begin with (stinking cloud, insect plague), the flavor is worth it. What's locate creature have to do with swamps?

I'm starting to get the impression that the designers really wanted Land druids to have divinations, which might be why scrying and divination show up so often in the Circle spells. So I guess your mileage may vary on whether you agree with that. I take it you don't particularly.



Circle of the Underdark
4th Level: Sickening Radiance instead of Greater Invisibility
This one is a bit odd too, but hear me out: this is basically like covering someone with phosphorescence and doing radiant damage at the same time; it's a super duper Faerie Fire and perfect for messing up Underdark undead. It kicks Greater Invisibility off their spell list, but Druids kind of get some notion of that already with Wild Shape (into a centipede or whatever) and Pass Without Trace, and this pulls a different, more flavorful Wizard spell to replace it in the process.

Works for me. I like sickening radiance, and it's just the right kind of Underdark weird. Shadow of moil is also tempting.

--- OVERALL ---
I think that a lot of these changes seem inclined toward giving Land druids more AOE offensive power. The flavor changes are mostly pretty nice too, and Land druids already do have some AOE options, so they're not bad changes, but it's worth being aware of the mechanical shift. Do you want Land druids to be even more blasty? If you're cool with that, then no issues.

Beelzebubba
2018-01-22, 02:07 PM
Thanks for the thoughtful critique, and I agree with your analysis, now that I've slept on it.

This was a bit of spitballing, and really, I don't think any of my suggestions are essential. My choices do focus on the environmental special effects, which by extension makes them more Evoker-heavy. And, I can totally see your point about the Divination as 'being given the wisdom of the land', so they work. My only reason to swap out Scrying is it's on the Druid list anyway, but if you see the whole list of them as a package, they seem intended to present a well-rounded set of abilities, and not a Sorcerer-like focus.

Swamp and Underdark are the only two ideas I'm really still excited about. The whole thing that prompted this was me thinking I might want to swap in Erupting Earth instead of Lightning Bolt for my Mountain Druid, but - again, after sleeping on it - realizing it mean my big damage spell will no longer be able to hurt flying monsters. And that would be a bit of a nerf.

(Right now, I'm almost hoping my druid gets ganked, so I can have him reincarnate as a Drow, Circle of the Underdark. :smallbiggrin:)

AureusFulgens
2018-01-22, 08:16 PM
Thanks for the thoughtful critique, and I agree with your analysis, now that I've slept on it.

This was a bit of spitballing, and really, I don't think any of my suggestions are essential. My choices do focus on the environmental special effects, which by extension makes them more Evoker-heavy. And, I can totally see your point about the Divination as 'being given the wisdom of the land', so they work. My only reason to swap out Scrying is it's on the Druid list anyway, but if you see the whole list of them as a package, they seem intended to present a well-rounded set of abilities, and not a Sorcerer-like focus.

My pleasure! I learned a few things myself.

I hadn't noticed that scrying was on the druid list (failed Spot check), so that does make getting rid of it a little more of an attractive option. If you want it, you can have it; and you have a Land slot opened up for a spell you wouldn't have otherwise.



Swamp and Underdark are the only two ideas I'm really still excited about. The whole thing that prompted this was me thinking I might want to swap in Erupting Earth instead of Lightning Bolt for my Mountain Druid, but - again, after sleeping on it - realizing it mean my big damage spell will no longer be able to hurt flying monsters. And that would be a bit of a nerf.

(Right now, I'm almost hoping my druid gets ganked, so I can have him reincarnate as a Drow, Circle of the Underdark. :smallbiggrin:)


Tweaking the land druids is an interesting task... their flavor is kind of curious, and they really do seem to leave a lot of room for modification. It's been interesting to see your take! And I'd agree, your swamp and underdark tweaks were the most effective to me.

I have a character I'm currently thinking about getting killed right now, so I understand that line of reasoning. :smallwink: There are just too many fascinating mechanical options to play the same character for too long. (In my case, it doesn't help that my poor fallen paladin is getting a bit depressing to play, but that's another story.)