Native Outsider + Alter Self

[Talya]

Is there any really useful outsider-type creatures for the alter self spell? The 5 hit dice limit really eliminates most choices. I was hoping to use Coure Eladrin out of BoED, but they are "tiny," which is one size category too far for the spell (the character is medium). I might not take the spell if I can't find useful forms for it.

[Reel On, Love]

The ridiculous Dwarf Ancestor from the MM4 gets +13 NA.

Mephits are less-overwhelming but great choices. Alter Selfing into an Air Mephit gets you a 60' Perfect fly speed, +3 NA, Small size (+1 AC, +1 AB). The Earth Mephit has a 40' Average fly speed (as Overland Flight), but +6 NA. The Ice Mephit is a compromise with 50' perfect flight and +4 NA.

A Minor Xorn has a bite and three claws, burrowing through rock, and +12 NA, plus Small size benefits. An Azer gets +6 NA just like a Troglodyte.

[martyboy74]

Mephits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/mephit.htm) are nice for movement abilities, and they all have 3 HD, letting you acees them as soon as you get the spell. Depending on how your DM interprets the spell, you may be able to get the Xorn (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/xorn.htm)'s Earth Glide ability, which is nice. The Xill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/xill.htm) is decent for combat, but, really, you're a wizard. That's no your job. Remember that Alter Self is mostly for picking up handy movement abilities for long periods of time; not fighting.

[Talya]

but, really, you're a wizard.

Actually, I'm a bard. A level 5 Star Elf bard (Star Elves being native outsiders with no LA.)

[Reel On, Love]

Actually, I'm a bard.

...I'm sorry.

[martyboy74]

Actually, I'm a bard. A level 5 Star Elf bard (Star Elves being native outsiders with no LA.)

Oh. My bad. I guess that I'm becoming a bit of a Wiz/Sor bigot.

What's your bard's party niche? Are you the fifth wheel? Or are you the arcane caster (pleasesaynopleasesaynopleasesayno)? If you're the caster be aware of the necessary functions for spell casting. If you're the fifth wheel on the other hand, go for somewhat more combat oriented forms. With ridiculous NA and some DR, you can greatly assist the front line.

[Starbuck_II]

Actually, I'm a bard. A level 5 Star Elf bard (Star Elves being native outsiders with no LA.)

Wait...how did an elf count as an outsider?
What book are they in?

[Gom_Golagoog]

You can find a fairly comprehensive list of Alter Self forms (for humanoids, outsiders, aberrations, etc.) here:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=2489422

By the way, according to that list a Dwarf Ancestor has +18 natural AC bonus, not +13!

[MrNexx]

Wait...how did an elf count as an outsider?
What book are they in?

Unapproachable East has the Star Elf... otherwise known as Elf Lightbulb-for-a-head.

[BardicDuelist]

Unapproachable East has the Star Elf... otherwise known as Elf Lightbulb-for-a-head.

I HATE that picture...

Nerro (or Nerra, or w/e is from the plain of mirrors in the FF) has a decent natural armor and looks cool.

[Ramza00]

Dwarf Ancestor is a wonderful form with no downsides besides lack of fly speed, large size (for non combat use or tight tunnels) and a low dex. Located here free as an excerpt

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060704a&page=3

Good Str, good Con (for fort saves), good NA, DR 10/Adamintine, near perfect combat form.

[Xaros]

Dwarf Ancestor is a wonderful form with no downsides besides lack of fly speed, large size (for non combat use or tight tunnels) and a low dex. Located here free as an excerpt

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060704a&page=3

Good Str, good Con (for fort saves), good NA, DR 10/Adamintine, near perfect combat form.

Alter Self doesn't let you change your ability scores - your original ones are retained. The natural armor is phenomenal, though.

[God_of_Luck]

Actually, I'm a bard. A level 5 Star Elf bard (Star Elves being native outsiders with no LA.)

If I'm not wrong, Star Elves are not outsiders, they just have the extraplanar subtype.

[brian c]

If I'm not wrong, Star Elves are not outsiders, they just have the extraplanar subtype.

It's actually not even a subtype, it's a Su quality. The description of that quality even explicitly says "Star Elves are not Outsiders".


I don't see any positives about that quality; you still count as humanoid for Charm and such, but you can be banished, which sounds like it would suck.

[Reel On, Love]

Star Elves qualify for the "Otherworldly" regional feat, which does make them outsiders.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Alter Self doesn't let you change your ability scores - your original ones are retained. The natural armor is phenomenal, though.

In this case, that could be a good thing -- DEX on top of 18 NA is far from anything to sneeze at at level 5.

[brian c]

Star Elves qualify for the "Otherworldly" regional feat, which does make them outsiders.

Alright, but since the OP said


Actually, I'm a bard. A level 5 Star Elf bard (Star Elves being native outsiders with no LA.)

Then I say, Talya, make sure you take that feat, otherwise this is all for naught.

[Talya]

What's your bard's party niche?

Well, at level 5 my bardsong is already +3, with a mostly martial party, so right now singing is it's own niche. She's also half-celestial (using savage progressions rules, she's currently only ECL 6...no wings yet though), so I don't really need the Otherworldly feat. Daughter of Erevan Ilesere, Seldarine thief.


Are you the fifth wheel? Or are you the arcane caster (pleasesaynopleasesaynopleasesayno)?

We've got a gnome illusionist in the party who will be doing most of the arcane casting, as well as a cleric and a druid. This is a PbP campaign with a very large party, as well. Yeah, she's going more combat than spellcasting...although we've got no rogue, and she's the only one that can fill the role of skillmonkey in the party.