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Saucy_Ninja
2007-08-25, 06:44 PM
Good evening all.

Long time reader of OOTS, but I'm afraid I'm a tad new to the forums, so please bear with me.

My friend is running an Gestalt Evil campaign in Forgotten Realms, ECL 12, and I bit the bullet and took the meat shield bit of the party. I of course plan on running pure Fighter levels up to 20 (with the Arts of War (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30692), God bless 'em.) As for the other half, I planning on taking Weretiger (going with the rules where I hold back a few level to reduce that god awful level adjustment of +6), mixed with full Black Blood Hunter ranks. That still leaves me with at least 7 levels at my disposal by the end (assuming we don't go epic), and I'm not entirely sure what to do with 'em all.

I was [I]thinking[I] of taking the Survivor prestige class, since I'll keep my Fighter's BAB and I'll be getting Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge (both very nice) among a few other things. But even if I were to fill out on the Survivor prestige class, I'd be left with 2 blank levels before 20.

Any suggestions out there (if any of this has made sense)?

Zincorium
2007-08-25, 06:54 PM
First off, a list of all books you've been approved to use opens up a lot of helpful advice, you'll get a lot more mileage when we've got a set goal in mind.


Second, Good on you for getting BWL's fighter approved, regular fighter isn't worth 20 levels but his is.

Third, where are you getting +6 for a weretiger? The LA of a weretiger is +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural). You have racial HD, which suck, but it isn't so bad with gestalt. Are you only taking the LA on one 'side'? It's a common house rule, but it isn't completely clear from your post.

Fourth, Survivor is good, but since the DR /- doesn't stack with your existing DR, you're only going to be using it when attacked by silver weapons that are also magic (black blood hunter), so it's going to be a lot less useful for you than most characters.

Warshaper, from the complete warrior, is really really good. Immunity to critical hits (free heavy fortification armor, pretty much), higher damage for your natural attacks, increased reach, stat increases, etc. The effects apply whenever you're in a form other than your original one.

Saucy_Ninja
2007-08-25, 06:59 PM
As we're reasonablly experienced players (especially our DM), all books excepting the campaign settings for Ebonhawk, Dragonlance, etc. are available. And I made an error in my original post; I meant +3 level adjustment.

As for the Warshaper suggestion, thanks alot! That's the first thing I'm going to be looking into.

It's going to be interesting keeping up with the other players, as we also have a Sorcerer/Favored Soul (who can cast both Arcane AND Divine Spells) and a Wizard/Dread Necromancer/Pale Master. Hopefully this will humble them some. :smalltongue:

Reel On, Love
2007-08-25, 07:10 PM
Keep in mind there was "errata" for one of the arts (the concentration-for-a-save one).

At level 12, I'd suggest Overcome Limitation: Size, Battle Learning: Alertness, and whatever else as Basic arts, and Heart of Battle plus Charging Pounce as Advanced arts.

On the other side, well... something with spellcasting would be good for you. :P Otherwise, take a Tome of battle class. Swordsage with Crusader dips, maybe.

Warshaper's a must if you are doing Weretiger.

martyboy74
2007-08-25, 07:10 PM
If you have the Miniatures Handbook (or access to a printer), and you're willing to fully embrace your role as 'meatshield', you can pick up a couple levels of War Hulk. Admittedly, you'll only gain its benefits when at least partially shapeshifted, but it works beautifully in gestalt, because the largest weakening facter (the lack of BAB) is remediated by the other side of the build.

War Hulk

Against the marshaled forces of the enemy army, the war hulk stands large, confident in his power against lesser soldiers. And why not? He is a creature of great size and talent who is specifically trained to shock and awe opposing massed troops. A war hulk indeed, the character knows how to spread his mighty blows across a wide area, creating carnage on the battlefield. While a single opponent might evade this massive attack, a massed unit of terrified soldiers are meat on the pounding block.

Drawn most often from more intelligent individuals among the various giants, war hulks are trained to fight by similarly large tutors. Other than being big, a war hulk must come to the training already knowing how to fight. Thus the martial classes, such as fighter, ranger, paladin, and barbarian, are most often promoted into this prestige class -- although many giants qualify for the class with no class levels at all.

When an NPC war hulk is spied at the head of the army, it is too significant to call merely an omen. Instead, it is a clear sign that the enemy army is in deadly peril.

Hit Die: d12.

Requirements:

To qualify to become a war hulk, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Feats: Cleave.
Special: Must be size Large or larger.

Class Skills

The war hulk's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), and Jump (Str).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Table 1-12: The War Hulk
{table]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+0|+2|+0|+0|No time to think, ability boost (Str +2)
2nd|+0|+3|+0|+0|Great swing, ability boost (Str +2)
3rd|+0|+3|+1|+1|Mighty rock throwing, ability boost (Str +2)
4th|+0|+4|+1|+1|Mighty swing, ability boost (Str +2)
5th|+0|+4|+1|+1|Ability boost (Str +2)
6th|+0|+5|+2|+2|Sweeping boulder, ability boost (Str +2)
7th|+0|+5|+2|+2|Ability boost (Str +2)
8th|+0|+6|+2|+2|Massive sweeping boulder, Toughness, ability boost (Str +2)
9th|+0|+6|+3|+3|Ability boost (Str +2), Toughness
10th|+0|+7|+3|+3|Massive swing, Toughness, ability boost (Str +2)
[/table]
Class Features

All of the following are class features of the war hulk.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: War hulks gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Ability Boost (Ex): As the war hulk gains levels in this prestige class, his Strength ability score increases as noted in Table 1-12: The War Hulk. These increases stack and are gained as if through level advancement.

No Time To Think (Ex): A character with levels in the War Hulk prestige class is considered to have 0 ranks in all Intelligence-, Wisdom-, and Charisma-based skills (whether or not he has previously bought ranks in them previously). The only exception to this rule is Intimidate, which works normally.

Great Swing (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the war hulk is able to make a great, sweeping swing with a melee weapon. In melee, as a full-round action, the war hulk can choose three squares adjacent to each other (he must threaten all of them). His attack applies to all creatures in those squares. Make one attack roll and apply that roll as an attack against each defender. If the war hulk rolls a critical hit, only the first creature suffers the critical hit.

Walls and similar obstacles can block the great swing. Start with one square that the war hulk threatens. Each successive square chosen must be adjacent to the previous square and have line of effect from that square. Two squares separated by a wall, for instance, can't be chosen as adjacent squares for the great swing.

The war hulk may skip creatures, attacking only those he wants to. For example, if there are three creatures in a row -- an enemy, an ally, and another enemy -- the war hulk can choose those three squares for the great swing but strike only the enemies.

If the war hulk drops one of his foes with a great swing, he may cleave normally. However, he may cleave only once for every time he swings, even if he drops more than one foe.

If the war hulk deals sneak attack damage, it applies only to the first creature struck with each attack.

Mighty Rock Throwing (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, the war hulk gains a powerful rock throwing skill. The war hulk can throw rocks that deal 2d8 damage with a range increment of 50 feet. (Like all thrown weapons, they have a maximum range of five range increments.) The war hulk uses his Strength modifier instead of his Dexterity modifier on the attack roll. The rock must be approximately 50 pounds in weight.

Mighty Swing (Ex): Starting at 4th level, the war hulk can make mighty swings. A mighty swing is like a great swing except that it is an attack action rather than a full-round action. Thus, the war hulk can move and make a mighty swing or (if he can make multiple attacks) make multiple mighty swings in a single round.

Sweeping Boulder (Ex): Starting at 6th level, the war hulk is able to throw his rocks with such force that they affect two adjacent squares. (The second square must be farther away from the war hulk than the first -- they cannot be equidistant from him.) Make one attack roll; the roll applies to each target. Only the first creature can be hit for critical damage or sneak attack damage.

As with great swing, there must be line of effect from one square to the next.

Toughness: At 8th, 9th, and 10th level, a war hulk gains the Toughness feat.

Massive Sweeping Boulder (Ex): Starting at 9th level, the war hulk is able to throw his rocks with such force that they affect four squares in a line. (Each successive square chosen must be farther away from the giant.) Only the first creature can be hit for critical damage or sneak attack damage.

As with great swing, there must be line of effect from one square to the next.

Massive Swing (Ex): At 10th level, the war hulk can lash out all around himself. Massive swing works like mighty swing except that it is not limited to three squares. The war hulk's swing affects all squares he threatens that have a line of effect between them.

Note: This is on the wizards website, and is thus postable. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030914a)
Argueably, you can even use the fact that you become ineligible for this class when in human form to dodge out of No Time To Think. Try it with your DM!

Dr. Weasel
2007-08-25, 07:34 PM
Both Weretiger and Warhulk (the latter especially) are more than most DMs would allow to occupy a single side of a build. If you're already getting BWL's Fighter and Weretiger on a single side, I wouldn't try to ask for Warhulk cheese.
I would agree with The Weretiger/ToB class o' your choosing/Warshaper plan

RTGoodman
2007-08-25, 08:04 PM
If you have the Miniatures Handbook (or access to a printer), and you're willing to fully embrace your role as 'meatshield', you can pick up a couple levels of War Hulk. Admittedly, you'll only gain its benefits when at least partially shapeshifted, but it works beautifully in gestalt, because the largest weakening facter (the lack of BAB) is remediated by the other side of the build.

War Hulk

Against the marshaled forces of the enemy army, the war hulk stands large, confident in his power against lesser soldiers. And why not? He is a creature of great size and talent who is specifically trained to shock and awe opposing massed troops. A war hulk indeed, the character knows how to spread his mighty blows across a wide area, creating carnage on the battlefield. While a single opponent might evade this massive attack, a massed unit of terrified soldiers are meat on the pounding block.

Drawn most often from more intelligent individuals among the various giants, war hulks are trained to fight by similarly large tutors. Other than being big, a war hulk must come to the training already knowing how to fight. Thus the martial classes, such as fighter, ranger, paladin, and barbarian, are most often promoted into this prestige class -- although many giants qualify for the class with no class levels at all.

When an NPC war hulk is spied at the head of the army, it is too significant to call merely an omen. Instead, it is a clear sign that the enemy army is in deadly peril.

Hit Die: d12.

Requirements:

To qualify to become a war hulk, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Feats: Cleave.
Special: Must be size Large or larger.

Class Skills

The war hulk's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), and Jump (Str).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Table 1-12: The War Hulk
{table]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+0|+2|+0|+0|No time to think, ability boost (Str +2)
2nd|+0|+3|+0|+0|Great swing, ability boost (Str +2)
3rd|+0|+3|+1|+1|Mighty rock throwing, ability boost (Str +2)
4th|+0|+4|+1|+1|Mighty swing, ability boost (Str +2)
5th|+0|+4|+1|+1|Ability boost (Str +2)
6th|+0|+5|+2|+2|Sweeping boulder, ability boost (Str +2)
7th|+0|+5|+2|+2|Ability boost (Str +2)
8th|+0|+6|+2|+2|Massive sweeping boulder, Toughness, ability boost (Str +2)
9th|+0|+6|+3|+3|Ability boost (Str +2), Toughness
10th|+0|+7|+3|+3|Massive swing, Toughness, ability boost (Str +2)
[/table]
Class Features

All of the following are class features of the war hulk.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: War hulks gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Ability Boost (Ex): As the war hulk gains levels in this prestige class, his Strength ability score increases as noted in Table 1-12: The War Hulk. These increases stack and are gained as if through level advancement.

No Time To Think (Ex): A character with levels in the War Hulk prestige class is considered to have 0 ranks in all Intelligence-, Wisdom-, and Charisma-based skills (whether or not he has previously bought ranks in them previously). The only exception to this rule is Intimidate, which works normally.

Great Swing (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the war hulk is able to make a great, sweeping swing with a melee weapon. In melee, as a full-round action, the war hulk can choose three squares adjacent to each other (he must threaten all of them). His attack applies to all creatures in those squares. Make one attack roll and apply that roll as an attack against each defender. If the war hulk rolls a critical hit, only the first creature suffers the critical hit.

Walls and similar obstacles can block the great swing. Start with one square that the war hulk threatens. Each successive square chosen must be adjacent to the previous square and have line of effect from that square. Two squares separated by a wall, for instance, can't be chosen as adjacent squares for the great swing.

The war hulk may skip creatures, attacking only those he wants to. For example, if there are three creatures in a row -- an enemy, an ally, and another enemy -- the war hulk can choose those three squares for the great swing but strike only the enemies.

If the war hulk drops one of his foes with a great swing, he may cleave normally. However, he may cleave only once for every time he swings, even if he drops more than one foe.

If the war hulk deals sneak attack damage, it applies only to the first creature struck with each attack.

Mighty Rock Throwing (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, the war hulk gains a powerful rock throwing skill. The war hulk can throw rocks that deal 2d8 damage with a range increment of 50 feet. (Like all thrown weapons, they have a maximum range of five range increments.) The war hulk uses his Strength modifier instead of his Dexterity modifier on the attack roll. The rock must be approximately 50 pounds in weight.

Mighty Swing (Ex): Starting at 4th level, the war hulk can make mighty swings. A mighty swing is like a great swing except that it is an attack action rather than a full-round action. Thus, the war hulk can move and make a mighty swing or (if he can make multiple attacks) make multiple mighty swings in a single round.

Sweeping Boulder (Ex): Starting at 6th level, the war hulk is able to throw his rocks with such force that they affect two adjacent squares. (The second square must be farther away from the war hulk than the first -- they cannot be equidistant from him.) Make one attack roll; the roll applies to each target. Only the first creature can be hit for critical damage or sneak attack damage.

As with great swing, there must be line of effect from one square to the next.

Toughness: At 8th, 9th, and 10th level, a war hulk gains the Toughness feat.

Massive Sweeping Boulder (Ex): Starting at 9th level, the war hulk is able to throw his rocks with such force that they affect four squares in a line. (Each successive square chosen must be farther away from the giant.) Only the first creature can be hit for critical damage or sneak attack damage.

As with great swing, there must be line of effect from one square to the next.

Massive Swing (Ex): At 10th level, the war hulk can lash out all around himself. Massive swing works like mighty swing except that it is not limited to three squares. The war hulk's swing affects all squares he threatens that have a line of effect between them.

Note: This is on the wizards website, and is thus postable. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030914a)
Argueably, you can even use the fact that you become ineligible for this class when in human form to dodge out of No Time To Think. Try it with your DM!


I don't really have anything to say on the subject at hand, and I hate to be off topic, but I just wanted to point out that that War Hulk PrC is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

martyboy74
2007-08-25, 08:26 PM
I don't really have anything to say on the subject at hand, and I hate to be off topic, but I just wanted to point out that that War Hulk PrC is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

The entire book's broken. Fax calls it 'The Gospel According to Cheesus, the Dairy Messiah'. :smallamused:

Saucy_Ninja
2007-08-25, 08:33 PM
The entire book's broken. Fax calls it 'The Gospel According to Cheesus, the Dairy Messiah'. :smallamused:

Heh. That's funny. Cause my DM (who 9 times out of 10 will choose a spell caster when he's a character) say that the ToB almost makes melee classes "worth it". Go figure.

Saucy_Ninja
2007-08-25, 08:35 PM
And thanks to everyone for all the help.

Time to go show those spell casters what I'm made of, eh?

"I once knew a guy who talked fancy like you do. He's dead now." *pounce-grapple-rend*