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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Two weapons. Advice on some weapons for a group I'm DMing for.



UnderwaterAir
2018-01-23, 02:45 AM
Do you think the weapons are too loaded? Too powerful? Some way you can see them being abused too greatly?
This is a high magic campaign where magic is somewhat abundant and magical items are in stock in every story in every major city. Thanks in advance.


Spear of Andalana, double bladed staff, requires attunement, 1d8, +2
=A bladestaff. The blades are shaped like small, but sharp, angelic wings. Because of its shape it requires 2hands to use. Attunement is the only way to achieve proficiency with this weapon. When you are proficient with this weapon, if it is used to perform a weapon attack on your turn you can use your bonus action to attack again with this weapon. This weapon uses both your dex modifier (+3 max) and str modifier (+3 max) for its attack and damage calculations (+6 max). While you wield this weapon you cannot wear heavy or medium armor else it is a 2handed 1d8 weapon. Your armor class while wiedling this weapon is 12+dex modifier + str modifier (max +6). If you have a racial or class feature that calculates AC you may use that instead.
=If an enemy attack roll is conducted against you you may use your reaction to counter the attack. You decide after the enemy has rolled their attack roll but not before the DM has added to hit modifiers for the attack to determine if it hits or misses you. If you choose to contest the attack you roll a d20. If you roll higher than the enemy's attack roll you parry the attack and can perform a single attack in retaliation. If you roll less or equal to the attacker's roll you are hit as normal. If the attacker rolls a 20 they score a critical hit as normal. If the attacker is ranged and you parry the attack you cannot retaliate.
=If an enemy moves to within 5 feet of you you can use your reaction to strike at them with two weapon attacks. You can then move up to 10 feet. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.
=This weapon is always in motion spinning and seemingly flying back and forth when battling. When you roll a 20 you attack with a flurry of six attacks and your turn ends. Roll a d20 for each of those six attacks, on 5-20 they hit and damage is calculated normally. On 1-4 they miss. You do not normally crit with this weapon.

Shadow Bane, magic short sword, requires attunement, binding, 1d6, +2
=Cursed blade. It is covered in shadows that dance across the blade. Shadow Bane must be fed four spell slots every time the person it is bonded to receives the benefits of a long rest or it will consume the soul of the person it is bonded with and that person dies.
=Once you have attuned and bonded with the weapon you cannot willingly let it leave your person. You feel that your spirit is connected to the weapon. Whenever you get 20 feet away from the weapon your shadow leaves you and starts crawling back towards the weapon. If you willingly leave 40 feet from your shadow you die. If you unwillingly leave 40 feet or more from this weapon you become frightened and must try to make your way back to the weapon on your turn with your full movement speed. You have disadvantage on any attack you choose to make before you get back to Shadow Bane. This bond and your ability to use the weapon will be removed if a remove curse spell or similar is cast on you.
=While bonded and on your person the weapon is invisible but you can holster it normally on your shadow and your shadow shows the weapon as if you were carrying the weapon. You can draw your weapon from any shadow around you. If there is no shadow around you you cannot draw this weapon unless it is already drawn. When you draw this weapon grey colored wisps of darkness seep from the dark blade as if the blade itself is breathing.
=You cannot use another weapon while wielding this weapon nor a shield. If you attempt to do so the weapon is visible on your person but your shadow does not reflect this and attacks with the weapon will pass harmlessly through your targets. Likewise, enemy attacks will pass through the shield.
=When an enemy takes damage from this Shadow Bane while it is in its base form Shadow Bane steals a part of their shadow. Their shadow vanishes where they are hit. A creature hit in the torso now shows an empty spot or cut in their shadow where they were hit allowing light to shine there. This effect persists even across overlapping shadows. You can also attack a creature's shadow and it will inflict damage as if you had attacked their body normally. After 1 hour their shadow returns to normal.
=While Shadow Bane is in its normal form and has stolen shadow you can use your action to cause Shadow Bane to consume the shadow and it vanishes from your grip. When Shadow Bane has consumed the shadow it summons a number of dark blades around you equal to your int modifier (minimum of 1 max of 3) until the end of your turn. You can then take a number of extra attacks equal to the number of dark blades summoned +1. These blades deal 1d6 necrotic damage and they count as melee attacks that you are proficient with and have the properties of short swords. After you end your turn Shadow Bane returns to your hand.
=While Shadow Bane has stolen shadow you can use your action to have Shadow Bane consume that shadow. Shadow Bane empowers itself with that shadow becoming a 2handed greatsword that you are proficient with and you can then make one weapon attack with this weapon. This greatsword deals (int modifier)d8 psychic damage. You can use a bonus action to dismiss this form and transform Shadow Bane back to its base form.
=If there is shadow in an area greater than 40 square meters that you can see you can use your action to absorb all the shadows within 120 feet into Shadow Bane including your own. You can then unleash that shadow to inflict 10 attacks dealing 1d20 damage each hit to one target within melee range. Afterwards your character dies.

SilverStud
2018-01-23, 04:26 AM
Holy crap there is a lot to unpack here. To be honest, my eyes glazed over a bit when I saw the wall of text. I almost had to force myself to keep reading. Which is a shame, because these are some seriously cool ideas.

First thing I think you need to do is figure out how to write out these items more succinctly. I know formatting isn't the most flexible on a forum, so I won't comment too much on that. But there's just so much here. I'm going to make some suggestions about balance, simplicity, and succinctness.

And with that, my dear Bubbles (haha geddit? because underwater air...), we shall begin.

Before I show my suggested edits and things, let's talk a little about what each weapon is doing, shall we?

First up is the Spear of Andalana, a legendary bladestaff. Bladestaves seem to be an exotic weapon of your own invention? Whether your creation or not they seem cool. You specify that it must be wielded with two hands, and you dictate that the user adds both his STR and DEX to attack and damage rolls, but then you immediatly cap it at "max +6." Then you've got a penalty for wearing armor while wielding it (I presume the idea is that heavier armor limits flexibility? or something?), but then you immediately give a fantastic Unarmored Defense feature, BUT THEN cap it at +6 again. After those things, you give a parry ability (which is needlessly complex), along with a mechanic for riposte. To cap it all, the weapon lets you make a massive number of attacks on a critical hit.

From all of this information, I've got a pretty solid idea of who you want to wield this Spear. You're looking for either a monk or a rogue. Someone who wears either light or no armor at all, someone with high DEX but only normal or below-normal STR. The image I've got in my head is some sort of badass chick wearing normal leather armor totally owning everyone around her with massive flurries of swipes.

But the problem here is that all your cool stuff is couched in so much complexity. With that in mind, here is my revised version of your bladestaff.

Spear of Andalana
Exotic weapon(bladestaff), legendary(requires attunement)
The blades of this exquisite weapon are shaped like angelic wings, and the staff is warm to the touch. Those who use it are whirlwinds on the battlefield, hard to pin down and harder to hit. Use of this exotic weapon requires both hands, and a great deal of flexibility. You cannot use this weapon while wearing medium or heavy armor.
While attuned to the Spear of Andalana, you are considered proficient with it, you gain a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it, and may use either your Dexterity or your Strength bonus to calculate said rolls. You also gain the following benefits:

You can make Attacks of Opportunity against enemies who move into your reach
When an enemy makes a weapon attack against you, you may use your reaction to add your Proficiency Bonus to your Armor Class against that attack. If that attack misses, and the attacker is within 5 feet of you, you may make a single weapon attack against that creature.
Whenever you hit an enemy with this weapon, you may move up to 10 feet. This movement does not provoke AoO.
When you make a critical hit with this weapon, you may immediately make melee attacks against up to six creatures within either yourself or your target, or your target itself. These attacks are made with advantage, [EDIT] but cannot result in a critical hit.


Ok there it is. I made some significant changes. First of all, I upped the bonus to +3. Here's why. You said "add STR and DEX, but no more than +6." At the high levels this item will appear in, chances are that the wielder will have maxed either his STR or his DEX. That means a +5 in that stat. Which means that using the other stat is both needlessly complicated and only gives another +1. So I just put the +1 in the magic bonus and let the user choose STR or DEX.

Next, I got rid of the AC changes, but made the parry better. The +5 mirrors the Shield spell, but lets the spell keep its niche. I also toned down the the riposte from 2 to 1 extra attack. You're only going to be handing out one of these things (DO NOT HAND OUT MORE THAN ONE), and you don't want your other players checking their phones while this guy goes on a d20 spree.

Lastly, I got rid of the "you don't make crits, but if you do you do this" thing. Just stick with what people know. I replaced the "these attacks hit on 5-20" thing. At these high levels, advantage is simpler and just as good.


Alright, that took 45 minutes. Let's drop another 45!

Shadow Bane seems pretty awesome too! It's definitely the sword of the U L T I M A T E E D G E L O R D, but the abilities are cool. Sadly, though, this one is also burdened by complexity.
So you've got a sword that is invisible until drawn, but you can see its shadow. You can draw it from any shadow, but you do need shadow of some sort to draw it at all. You must intend this sword for a spellcaster, because you require 4 slots to feed it each morning (not 4 slot levels? Like, I have to burn all my first level slots? why can't I feed it a single fourth-level slot). Or else it consumes your soul. You also can't willingly leave it, or it consumes your soul. If you unwillingly leave it, you become desperate to retrieve it.
You also give the user some cool powers. The thing steals bits of shadow, and uses them to make more swords or a bigger sword.

Here's my edit:

Shadow Bane
shortsword, legendary(requires attunement)
This thin, black blade seeps a dark mist that pulses, as if the sword is breathing. When sheathed, it is invisible, though its shadow can still be seen.
While attuned to this weapon, you gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it.
An artifact of darkness, Shadow Bane is drawn from and sheathed in shadows. You may draw Shadow Bane from any shadow or darkness. If for some reason there is no shadow or darkness, you cannot draw Shadow Bane.
This weapon steals peoples' shadows, and draws power from that essense. When you hit a creature with Shadow Bane, it steals a piece of their shadow and holds it in the black opal in the pommel. It can hold up to 5 pieces of shadow, which dissipate after 8 hours.
You can use these pieces of shadow to fuel the special abilities of Shadow Bane.

Dark Shards: As an action, you cause Shadow Bane to consume any number of the shards stored within it. Shadow Bane vanishes from your hand, and it reappears as a ghostly shadow floating next to you, joined by a number of copies equal to the shadow shards consumed. For each spectral sword, make a spell attack against a creature you can see within 60 feet. On a hit, you deal 1d6 + your Intelligence Modifier psychic damage. Shadow Bane then returns to your hand.
Umbral Greatsword: As an action, you cause Shadow Bane to consume any number of the shards stored within it. Shadow Bane vanishes from your hand and is replaces by a massive cloaked greatsword. Make a melee spell attack against a creature within 10 feet of you. On a hit, you deal Xd10 psychic damage, where X is the number of shards consumed.
Void: As an action, you can consume all the shadow within 60 feet of you and use its power in one, final, devastating attack. You and each creature take 10d12 psychic damage, or half as much if they succeeded on their save. This damage cannot ignores resistance and immunity. This ability destroys Shadow Bane.



Curse. Once you become attuned to this weapon, you cannot leave it or unattune it. Remove Curse breaks the curse and unattunes the sword.
If you willingly move more than 40 feet from Shadow Bane, it consumes your soul and you die.
If you unwillingly move more than 40 feet from Shadow Bane, you must use all available abilities to retrieve it (Dash Action, full movement, etc). If you do not, it consumes your soul and you die.
At the end of each long rest, you must feed Shadow Bane 4 levels of spell slots. If you do not, it consumes your soul and you die.
You cannot use other weapons or shields while holding Shadow Bane.


Ok here's what I did. I actually kept most of this, because it wasn't AS complicated as your staff. I removed your weird "use your Int mod but only to 3" caveats and replace all that with "make a spell attack." It's super obvious that you want a wizard to use this. Might as well just use wizard language.

I changed the abilities too. I made them one-off events, instead of transformations that last for indefinite times. Especially since, the way you wrote it, a wizard would have to have high dex and high str to use this sword effectively, plus high int to be a good wizard. Nope, that's too MAD (multiple attribute dependent).

I had to change the nuke. Sorry, but sacrificing your life to deal 10d20 damage to a single target is crappy. Much better to deal a lot of damage to everything, including yourself. And your players will hesitate much more to use the nuke if it means the item is destroyed. There are ways around damage and death. Not so much destruction of artifacts.


Anyway, those are my thoughts. Tell me what you think. I spent a lot of time.

Ninja_Prawn
2018-01-23, 02:18 PM
To be honest, my eyes glazed over a bit when I saw the wall of text.

Me too. Since you've gone to such trouble to clean these up, I'll just review your versions...



Spear of Andalana
Exotic weapon(bladestaff), legendary(requires attunement)
The blades of this exquisite weapon are shaped like angelic wings, and the staff is warm to the touch. Those who use it are whirlwinds on the battlefield, hard to pin down and harder to hit. Use of this exotic weapon requires both hands, and a great deal of flexibility. You cannot use this weapon while wearing medium or heavy armor.
While attuned to the Spear of Andalana, you are considered proficient with it, you gain a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it, and may use either your Dexterity or your Strength bonus to calculate said rolls. You also gain the following benefits:

You can make Attacks of Opportunity against enemies who move into your reach.
When an enemy makes a weapon attack against you, you may use your reaction to gain a +5 bonus to your Armor Class against that attack. If that attack misses, and the attacker is within 5 feet of you, you may make a single weapon attack against that creature.
Whenever you hit an enemy with this weapon, you may move up to 10 feet. This movement does not provoke Opportunity Attacks.
When you make a critical hit with this weapon, you may immediately make melee attacks against up to six creatures within reach of either yourself or your target, or your target itself. These attacks are made with advantage.


Fixed some typos in magenta.

Just offhand, I'm interpreting this 'bladestaff' concept as a double-ended glaive, like this (https://i.pinimg.com/474x/55/74/44/557444ca6a27c6893b5b9eaeca871b70--double-bladed-staff-game-ideas.jpg) but with wing detailing. As such, I'd stat it up as a glaive (at present we don't know the weight, damage die or damage type of this and, as-written, it doesn't have reach). Making it finesse would then be part of the magical properties.

I'd also note that in the Defensive Duelist feat and monster stat blocks, parrying adds proficiency bonus to AC. It might be sensible to follow that precedent.

The only real complaint I have is with the six additional attacks part. I assume they have to be six different creatures, which is pretty unlikely to happen, but if it ever was a possibility, it would be pretty tedious to roll all of that. And with advantage on the attacks, the probability that one or more of the bonus attacks will be critical is 46%. With Superior Critical (I assume this is an item aimed at epic-level fighters), that rises to 86%. You'd be rolling attacks forever!



Shadow Bane
shortsword, legendary(requires attunement)
This thin, black blade seeps a dark mist that pulses, as if the sword is breathing. When sheathed, it is invisible, though its shadow can still be seen.
While attuned to this weapon, you gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it.
An artifact of darkness, Shadow Bane is drawn from and sheathed in shadows. You may draw Shadow Bane from any shadow or darkness. If for some reason there is no shadow or darkness, you cannot draw Shadow Bane.
This weapon steals peoples' shadows, and draws power from that essense. When you hit a creature with Shadow Bane, it steals a piece of their shadow and holds it in the black opal in the pommel. It can hold up to 5 pieces of shadow, which dissipate after 8 hours.
You can use these pieces of shadow to fuel the special abilities of Shadow Bane.

Dark Shards: As an action, you cause Shadow Bane to consume any number of the shards stored within it. Shadow Bane vanishes from your hand, and it reappears as a ghostly shadow floating next to you, joined by a number of copies equal to the shadow shards consumed. For each spectral sword, make a spell attack against a creature you can see within 60 feet. On a hit, you deal 1d6 + your Intelligence Modifier psychic damage. Shadow Bane then returns to your hand.
Umbral Greatsword: As an action, you cause Shadow Bane to consume any number of the shards stored within it. Shadow Bane vanishes from your hand and is replaces by a massive cloaked greatsword. Make a melee spell attack against a creature within 10 feet of you. On a hit, you deal Xd10 psychic damage, where X is the number of shards consumed.
Void: As an action, you can consume all the shadow within 60 feet of you and use its power in one, final, devastating attack. You and each creature take 10d12 psychic damage, or half as much if they succeeded on their save. This damage cannot ignores resistance and immunity. This ability destroys Shadow Bane.



Curse. Once you become attuned to this weapon, you cannot leave it or unattune it. Remove Curse breaks the curse and unattunes the sword.
If you willingly move more than 40 feet from Shadow Bane, it consumes your soul and you die.
If you unwillingly move more than 40 feet from Shadow Bane, you must use all available abilities to retrieve it (Dash Action, full movement, etc). If you do not, it consumes your soul and you die.
At the end of each long rest, you must feed Shadow Bane 4 levels of spell slots. If you do not, it consumes your soul and you die.
You cannot use other weapons or shields while holding Shadow Bane.

Honestly, I don't think this is strong enough to be called 'legendary'. I'd put it at very rare. Also, I'd specify how long you have to use "all available abilities to retrieve it" before it kills you. At the moment, I'm reading it as one round, which seems pretty harsh.

The 'having to be in shadow to draw it' bit also seems needlessly punitive. Unless the inside of a scabbard counts as an area of shadow, in which case the clause is irrelevant.

SilverStud
2018-01-23, 02:47 PM
Just offhand, I'm interpreting this 'bladestaff' concept as a double-ended glaive, like this but with wing detailing. As such, I'd stat it up as a glaive (at present we don't know the weight, damage die or damage type of this and, as-written, it doesn't have reach). Making it finesse would then be part of the magical properties.

I'd also note that in the Defensive Duelist feat and monster stat blocks, parrying adds proficiency bonus to AC. It might be sensible to follow that precedent.

The only real complaint I have is with the six additional attacks part. I assume they have to be six different creatures, which is pretty unlikely to happen, but if it ever was a possibility, it would be pretty tedious to roll all of that. And with advantage on the attacks, the probability that one or more of the bonus attacks will be critical is 46%. With Superior Critical (I assume this is an item aimed at epic-level fighters), that rises to 86%. You'd be rolling attacks forever!


That picture you posted was how I imagined it, except, as you noted, that the blades are wings (a motif I really like, OP).

Considering how much I tell other people to follow precedent, you'd think I would follow my own advice :P I've fixed that as well.

Yeah I was going to leave the stats of this weapon type up to UnderwaterAir. I think you're right, though. It ought to basically just be a glaive with PAM built in.

Also thanks for pointing out the infinite loop! That would be very bad, and also against the original intent as written by the OP. So I edited that to reflect that the extra attacks can't also crit.

I agree that Shadow Bane seems very... well, punitive is the correct word. Lots of "do X or die" stuff.

As for drawing the weapon from a shadow, I read that as being able to draw it from your own shadow. I preserved the "you mush have a shadow or darkness" clause because of the OP's statements. I figure that a character will always have access to his or her own shadow, unless the DM specifically tries to take it away from them.

I categorized it as legendary simply because it seems like a one-of-a-kind weapon. In power level, it seems more on the scale of very rare, as you said.

OP, what do you think of the suggestions we've made?

UnderwaterAir
2018-01-28, 03:20 AM
I've made some changes and my players have taken them weapons.
I don't remember the exact version I gave to my players but I'll confirm my notes with theirs next time we play.
I also took the opportunity attack on Andalana and the +5 AC. It just meant less dice rolling in general.

They're enjoying the weapons greatly so far.

I toned down Shadow Bane's raw damage output and tied it more to INT was the main change I remember.
And I had a Hexblader who wanted to use Andalana with CHA instead of DEX or STR. I said it was okay but it'd be +5 max at 20 CHA instead of +6 max total.

We'll test them out compared to the other items we have and see how they pan out.

Great input, all! Thanks! :D

And before there is too much fretting. The enemies we face are greatly modified from normal 5e monsters. They literally faced a vampire queen today that threw out Eldritch Fireballs as a legendary action and transformed into a vampiric beast creature with two different legendary actions. One enabling her to attack and move as expected, the other being she rolls a d20 after every person's turn and if she hits a 20 she recovers all her HP. Things like this.