Techsmith Optimization

[Derin Chance]

Hi everyone,

This is my first time really playing a full-on cleric and I need a bit of help to optimize it, especially since I've gone back to 3.5 after a long period with Pathfinder and am sometimes a bit confused.

I chose cleric since I have been wanting to try this power-house for a bit and since I joined the group a bit late, finding it already filled. Here is the rest of the party:

- Elan Psion (The Tank and main DD of the group. Usually charges in with claws, possibly 'morphed as a girallon)

- Human Malkonvoker Mage (She is main support for the Psion, Know-it-all and face of the group. Don't ask me how, but she managed to make a skill-monkey out of a mage)

- Human Ranger/Kensai archer (exactly what you'd expect)

- "Human" Rogue/Assassin (as a newbie, che basically only scouts and is now learning to keep an eye out for traps and to disarm and open locks. In combat she's basically useless.

The campaign is a mid-to-high level one, starting out at level 9 and going on. All chars are originally from the FR but the campaign itself is spread throughout the Planes with Sigil as a loose base of operations so, anything is game.
Generally speaking the party and campaign alignment is Neutral, slightly shifting toward LE (Right now we are working for Devils).

For this first stint as a cleric, I was thinking of using a very old idea of mine, trying out the Techsmith. Unfortunately, I realize that I didn't choose the easiest PrC to begin with but, since I don't have to be the main tank or anything, I think I can make it work. The idea of choosing a techsmith also came to me since our DM makes us begin with no magical equipment, unless we sacrifice a HD (we begin with full HP per level but depending on how many we sacrifice we can get a number of magical items). Speccing it as a crafter, I could easily keep all my HP and start making equipent for the party. Also, we don't use XP for levelling but more of a "the DM decides" so I guess I would be avoiding that cost too.


The character so far as I had envisioned it is as follows for a lvl 9 Human Cleric6/Techsmith3:

Str: 14
Dex: 9
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 20
Char 10

Dominions: Metal (decent spells and competence with Warhammer, for flavor), Craft (for the free feat and Minor Creation, both free pre-requisites for the CrP), Planning (bonus Dominion from 3rd Techsmith, for free Extend Spell)

Feats:
1: Power Attack, Combat Casting
3: Create Wondrous items (CrP pre-requisite)
6: Create Magic Arms and Armor (Completing party main crafter)
9: Pious Soul
12: Pious Spellsurge
15: Grenadier (not really convinced about this)
18:... no idea

I decided to forgo the usual Persistent Spell thing given that I have to "obligatory" feats taken at 3rd and 6th and that I would be taking Extended spells as a bonus with the new dominion at 9th level. Thus, I considered that I would be at full strength (Presistence + Divine Metamagic + Extra turning) only by 15th, non really making it worth it.

I was also thinking of taking tons of ranks in Craft Weaponsmith, Armorsmith and Alchemy to create and possilby sell stuff and to create and use bombs.

Any other ideas?

Thanks!

[Fizban]

For this first stint as a cleric, I was thinking of using a very old idea of mine, trying out the Techsmith. Unfortunately, I realize that I didn't choose the easiest PrC to begin with but, since I don't have to be the main tank or anything, I think I can make it work. The idea of choosing a techsmith also came to me since our DM makes us begin with no magical equipment, unless we sacrifice a HD (we begin with full HP per level but depending on how many we sacrifice we can get a number of magical items). Speccing it as a crafter, I could easily keep all my HP and start making equipent for the party. Also, we don't use XP for levelling but more of a "the DM decides" so I guess I would be avoiding that cost too.
Putting aside that magic items vs hp business, Techsmith is pretty much just weak (actually had one in a game with me once). Their main feature is a construct companion which is about as powerful as a horse or riding dog you could buy at 1st level (or have as an animal companion at 1st level), which then improves at approximately the normal companion rate- except you can't ride it, it costs thousands of gp replace, and it's multiple levels behind even when its not being compared to the bears which become available right after you enter the PrC. Now, none of this would be much of a problem with no druids or summoners in the party, but you have a Malconvoker, which means there's already gonna be extra minions clogging up the field and they're just plain better than yours.

The DMG bombs that the Techsmith gains the ability to craft are nice, for a DM building a setting with renaissance technology with 1st level NPCs, and being able to craft them in 2 hours makes them actually feasible in the world. At ECL 15, no one cares. The Grenadier feat is also quite terrible- bottom line, there is no DnD 3.5 version of Pathfinder's bomb-spewing Alchemist.

The rest of the Techsmith's abilities exist. Bonus domain is fine, there are other PrCs that do it around the same time so it's on par. A wide batch of competence bonuses don't stack with standard items and are smaller than what you'd normally buy, but you don't have to buy them -notably you have access to open lock and disable device and gain bonuses to them, but no Trapfinding. Construct "recognizing" and golem weakness identification is good for justifying (or just gaining) knowledge, if those are foes you fight, and access to Divine Power means screw the BAB you can still use that bypass golem DR/Improved Crit on everything if you want. Telepathy with constructs would be cool if you had the ability to make any useful scouty constructs, but that has to come from outside the class with Craft Construct and effigies or some of the more esoteric constructs that clerics can craft.

If you want a PrC that says "Gond Gond Gond Gond Gond," then go ahead and play a Techsmith. It won't make any of your cleric powers weaker (except for turning), the extra domain is an extra domain, the intelligent humanoid minion with more than 5hp doesn't hurt anything, nor do any of the other minor abilities. But you don't need to be a Techsmith to craft and it doesn't really help you craft at all. You could aim for just all the domains, jump out after 3rd to go Contemplative and Divine Disciple, dunno if Gond's domain abilities are worth the effort though.


While we're at it: Combat Casting is also terrible, especially if you aren't actually playing from 1st level, while Power Attack when you're losing BAB and have a minion is a feat that's only going to be used when you're under a specific buff and is probably not earning nearly as much as you think it is. Pious Soul+Spellsurge are quite strong, as long as the DM is allowing the variant that they fall under.

You've got 2+ other tanks with summoner on board, as you've recognized there's no reason for you to be a tank, or anywhere near the front line at all. If you want to stand out you could do. . . gasp, healing? As in, pro-actively prepare some status removal rather than waiting to fix things the next day, bring extra immunity buffs to spam around, etc. Depending on how the "mage" and psion are loaded, you might actually be the crowd control/utility (or you might not). That is the nice thing about cleric, being able to fix your spell choices once you've got to know the rest of the party.

-Divine Spell Power (the feat) is also a great way to turn turning attempts into raw spell power via caster level boosts with a single feat instead of the metamagic cheese pile. Turn that str into cha, be a likable gnome with big magic as you throw 1d6+4 caster levels on srs spells (with a high turning roll and a Pious Spellsurge) and max out the caster level on the spells you just got.
-Or just Domain Spontaneity (Earth) for spontaneous Soften Stone/Stone Shape/Spike Stones/Wall of Stone, a pretty solid suite of going through walls/battlefield control when in stone, if you're afraid of preparing healing spells. Fire and Metal aren't bad either, but sadly the feat makes you choose one (and taking it multiple times doesn't get you any more turn attempts). Even Planning (what do you plan on Extending by the way?) has Augury and Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, neither of which are common preps but both of which can be very useful to suddenly have.


Finally, someone get that Assassin trained up. They should be able to cast their own Invisibility and smokescreens (Obscuring Mist- and you can Stone Shape up cover for them), so there' no excuse for not sneak attacking or death attacking whenever they feel like it.

[unseenmage]

Having used Techsmith to tone down a Gestalt Artificer Cleric build I agree with most of the above.


If the grace of Gond or just religiously powered Constructs is the goal might I recommend the Sacred Guardian template? Sacred Guardian is in Bestiary of Krynn Revised, a Dragonlance book. You'll need to refluff one of the appropriate associated deities to be Gond though.

The template IS on the strong side and gives your Constructs a host of superpowers including Fast Healing and an Int score.

[Derin Chance]

So, in short, unless I just want Gond flavor galore, I can just skip the Techsmith, do a crafting Pure cleric of Gond (I don't really care too much about getting all the Domains) and if I really want a construct following me around, take Craft Construct down the road!

By the way, healing was definitely the idea of the character since a healer is what was desperately needed in that group (that, and a decent rogue... but that is another story). But it also does need a secondary tank, since apart from the psion the rest of the chars are second or third-liners.
True, the Malkonvoker can clog the battlefield with beasties and provide another barrier between the enemies and them so I guess I can just do support/healing (although, coming from tons of bards, I did want to do a bit of damage and first line, just for the kicks).

Finally, the assassin... the player is a newb and not even that good ad taking directions and scared to hell in combat. Basically she does mostly hide-shoot-hide-shoot... but usually misses. I didn't check it but I'm quite sure there is something wrong with her build.
Oh... and she doesn't use spells... we need to show her how.

So, thanks for the advice, I'll drop the Techsmith idea and go pure cleric probably, or try something different such as the Windwalker.